Bluebees bottom board

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

About 5 years ago I purchased a special bottom board insert to try. I read a bit about its qualities and it seemed to get good reviews, so I weakened and bought one. It is very similar to the tubular bottom board design that many of you would have seen but this one is a single piece of moulded food grade plastic.

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As you can see, the convex curves drop away into 3mm slots which bees can?t get through. The underside shows how sharply the slots finish.

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The claimed made by the manufacturer included better ventilation, cleaner bottom boards, lower hive beetle  numbers, reduced condensation and better honey yields. That was enough of a sales pitch for me to try one.  I built a bottom board and put it to use. Unfortunately, a sample of one was never going to give accurate, consistent results but I will report on what I have found over the five years that it has been in use. 1) Every year since the hive was established, honey yields have been consistently high compared all of the hives in the yard. 2) Spring buildup has always been very good and this hive always ends up with excellent bee numbers. 3) No beetle traps have ever been used on this hive. Beetles have always been present but not in big numbers. 4) Condensation has never been an issue in this hive. 5) Although bee numbers are large, bearding does not occur to the same extent as it does in hives with solid bottom boards. 6) Bees over winter well in my area with this bottom board in place. 7) No debris has ever built up on the bottom board. It is always spotless at the beginning of spring.

As you can see, I am quite happy with the way the hive is performing. A couple of years ago I made two more of these bottom boards and the results have been similar to what I experienced with the initial hive. The results are only anecdotal, with no specific data being collected. They are quite expensive to purchase (from memory each one was over $20) and the outside dimensions are a bit smaller than the size of the brood boxes. This means a bit more work than a standard board. I have just started constructing 3 more of these boards. I?ll post a pic. when they are finished.

Cheers

Les

[Ben Framed]

Lesgold

Condensation has never been an issue in this hive.

Les what are average temperatures during your winter and summer seasons?

Phillip

[paus]

This sounds like it does the same job the DSBB does, that some of us use with the same results.  With the oil pan you can see and count the results of SHB getting in the oil.

[The15thMember]

Hey Phillip, is this the kind of bottom board you were thinking of a while ago when we were talking about slatted racks? 

[Ben Framed]

No, the ones I was talking about was made of wood. I think they were similar to the ones you described. I had remembered reading some points and functins made by Brian D Bray about the racks. They will probably however,  serve the same function, working in a similar mannor? 
I think Paus is right about the function of the screen bottom boards he mentioned in reply 2. Except his description will 'eliminate' hive beetles instead of just letting escape through the bottom. However the bottoms pictured by Les should do the same thing, serve the same function, if an oil pan is placed beneath? Thus allowing any SHB or SHB larva to fall easily through the slots. I am thinking all three designs will be effective.

Back to Paus and Beemaster2s' design mentioned by Paus, I do not know if SHB larva will fit through the number 8 hardware cloth? With the oil pans beneath, to trap and destroy SHB themselves, I have not seen 'any' SHB larva in a hive which has the set up as mentioned by Paus. It seems SHB do not have the opportunity to progress that far, (to the larva stage).

Y'alls thoughts?


Phillip

[Ben Framed]

PS I can see future potential in the design pictured here by Les....

[The15thMember]

Back to Paus and Beemaster2s' design mentioned by Paus, I do not know if SHB larva will fit through the number 8 hardware cloth?

I think they certainly could.  The ones I've seen could anyway.  I don't believe they get as big as the waxworms before pupating. 

[Ben Framed]

Back to Paus and Beemaster2s' design mentioned by Paus, I do not know if SHB larva will fit through the number 8 hardware cloth?

I think they certainly could.  The ones I've seen could anyway.  I don't believe they get as big as the waxworms before pupating.

You are right. The wax worms are much larger than the SHB larva.

[Ben Framed]

Reagan, Paus, Les,  I really like the design introduced us to. Allow me to share some thoughts:

In my case, I have 3/4 rest on my bottom boards allowing a 3/4 inch opening across the entire bottom for the bees to come and go.
What if:
What if the Les bottoms were made to snap on a pan just the right size, similar to the operation of a Tupperware bowl and top? And what if we build our bottoms, compensating the area difference of the pan/Les bottoms adding this depth to the bottom boards rest. We could simply fill the oil pan trays to the proper depth, snap the Les bottoms on the pans, and easily slide this set up into the modified bottom board, allowing a easy access, perfect fit, which will still leave a 3/4 full opening for the bees to come and go. This would or should totally element any SHB problems? While elimination the need for screens since bees can not fit through the slots.. Making it much easier and faster to arrange a SHB oil kill trap.
Now what I am proposing will not give the extra ventilation as its original designed purpose, but will serve a higher purpose in my opinion.

Phillip

[paus]

If I knew how I can show pictures of hundreds of SHB larva in the oil from a hive I put over a DSBB with oil.  When I got this hive, it was too far gone but hundreds of SHB and larva never made it to another hive.  None of the hives next to this box ever got an infestation.

[Lesgold]

Hi Folks,

To answer your question Phillip, I live in a temperate climate. Over night winter temperatures normally get down to 2 or 3 degrees C with the occasional temp as low as 0. Daytime temps are normally between 12 and 15 degrees. Summer temperatures are normally around 25 to 35 degrees with occasional hotter bursts hitting up to 40.
In relation to the small hive beetle and the wax moth, the smooth surface and funnel shape allows the bees to chase pests through the slots. The same thing happens with debris. Constant movement over the bottom board causes all hive debris to fall through the slots. Every year when I do my first major spring inspection, it still surprises me as to how clean the bottom boards are. I have never had to scrape or even brush one.

In relation to hive beetle traps, it would be a simple task to design a bottom board with an oil or diatomaceous earth tray to slide underneath. I have never worried about this as the hive seams to keep the numbers of beetle under control quite easily. If your hive was weak, this would be a different story.

Cheers

Les

[Ben Framed]

If I knew how I can show pictures of hundreds of SHB larva in the oil from a hive I put over a DSBB with oil.  When I got this hive, it was too far gone but hundreds of SHB and larva never made it to another hive.  None of the hives next to this box ever got an infestation.

Yes It was You and Jim (Beemaster2) who saved me from SHB with your description of your designs of these set ups my first season.. I am grateful to you both for that. This that Les has shown may be another way to accomplish basically the same thing but much easier to get there? A person could actually have these mass produced if he had the right connections? One thing is for sure your design WORKS! Thank you Paus.

Phillip

[Lesgold]

Sorry Paus,

We must have posted at the same time. You made a valid point. Seeing dead beetles is
a real pleasure. (Especially when you see what damage they can do)

[Ben Framed]

Les your summer temperatures are similar to mine.  My winter temperatures are occasionally colder but varied. For instance last night my temperature was -7c / 19F with a high of 0c  32F today, but this is rare and usually will occur from Jan to the end of Feb.  Tomorrow it is to reach a high of 11 Celsius 52 F.  I suppose my area is a tipping point temperature wise...

Phillip

[Lesgold]

I?m not sure if I should be posting a website here so I won?t. If you Google bluebees bottom boards, you will find info about it. As I said in my first post, the only issue I have with this board is the overall dimensions. From memory, the 10 frame insert is 500 x 400mm (which is about 8mm shorter and 6mm narrower than our brood box. This basically means a bit of extra work for me to make the bottom board ?perfect?.

[Ben Framed]

Sorry Paus,

We must have posted at the same time. You made a valid point. Seeing dead beetles is
a real pleasure. (Especially when you see what damage they can do)

Les Paus comes up with some good stuff! He is also the person who introduced me to the use of kabob skewers for the use in foundation-less frames! Good stuff indeed!

Phillip

[Lesgold]

I?m intrigued by the bottom boards and traps you guys are talking about. Would love to find out more. Going foundationless in the brood box could have some major time and cost savings as well as the advantages of helping prevent swarming issues in the spring. I must admit it is something that I had not considered in the past. You guys have really got me thinking. I am glad I joined this forum.

[Ben Framed]

If I knew how I can show pictures of hundreds of SHB larva in the oil from a hive I put over a DSBB with oil.  When I got this hive, it was too far gone but hundreds of SHB and larva never made it to another hive.  None of the hives next to this box ever got an infestation.

I am convinced that your set up will not only kill beetles in the hive where it is placed, but attracts beetles from the surrounding area. We have talked of this before. I am repeating it for the benefit of Les and any newer members who might have missed our discussions of this before.
And not only beetles but as you reaffirmed, larva as well fitting through the number 8 Hardware cloth, that might already have been in the hive when the traps were placed there, thought too late. Thanks for the reminder Paus. 

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

Lesgold

You guys have really got me thinking. I am glad I joined this forum.

Les that cuts two ways, we are glad that you joined us. New posting members, such as yourself and Nigel for example, (and others), along with our older members on this topic for example, are a pleasure to discuss things with.

Phillip

[Lesgold]

Thanks Phillip. When you do post, often other ideas turn up as well. The DSBB idea is something I want to look at. Are there any plans around for that? It obviously works very well. I think it?s good to have options to see what works well in your own situation. I run 5 different styles of bottom boards that I?ve made or purchased over the years. It?s good to be able to evaluate each one and see how they perform on a comparative basis.