OTS Method of Queen Rearing: Question

beesnweeds · January 30, 2022, 06:17:08 PM

Quote from: Ben Framed on January 30, 2022, 04:43:49 PM
If we place the queen above the set up, whether OTS or simply 'pull the queen' method, we can place a double screen dividing board on top of our existing hive adding the original queen and crew here in waiting, letting her continue laying with the entourage we have provided her (on top).

No need for a double screen dividing board, just a QE will do.

jtcmedic · January 30, 2022, 07:51:28 PM

Quote from: Bob Wilson on January 30, 2022, 03:35:39 PM
Perhaps this might clear it up for me, also.
When we (OTS) notch some viable egg cells in a hive after removing the queen to a nuc, does the hive tend to make QCs only on those notched cells, or in many/various other places like a swarm prepping hive?

they will make them at the notches and at other spots, wherever the alpha bees choose the larva.0

Brian MCquilkin · January 30, 2022, 08:03:16 PM

Quote from: jtcmedic on January 30, 2022, 07:51:28 PM
Quote from: Bob Wilson on January 30, 2022, 03:35:39 PM
Perhaps this might clear it up for me, also.
When we (OTS) notch some viable egg cells in a hive after removing the queen to a nuc, does the hive tend to make QCs only on those notched cells, or in many/various other places like a swarm prepping hive?
they will make them at the notches and at other spots, wherever the alpha bees choose the larva.0

The bees will make queen cells where they want, but if you notch they will make more sell in that area depending on where you notch. I have notched up to 4 times on one frame and ended with up to 6+ cells in all notches. It will very be depending on what the bees want, but it can be very successful.

cao · January 31, 2022, 11:09:31 AM

>>>>> 'both' will produce 'emergency cells' because of the absence of their queen? Is that correct? If so neither method will produce swarm cells or supersedure cells, but emergency cells?

Imho the search for having bees make supercedure cells is a waste of time. Those cells are made when everything looks normal in a hive except the bees want to replace the queen. It it not very often that a beekeeper comes across them. One or two cells in a full hive can easily be missed. All other queen cells are either swarm cells(made with queen still in hive) or emergency cells(made with no queen in hive). So even grafted queen cells could be considered emergency cells. Basically imho a queen cell is a queen cell no matter why or how it was made.

>>>>>If we place the queen above the set up, whether OTS or simply 'pull the queen' method, we can place a double screen dividing board on top of our existing hive adding the original queen and crew here in waiting, letting her continue laying with the entourage we have provided her (on top).

Instead of moving the queen to the top, just move the frame or frames that you want to notch to the top(a lot less work). As long as there is enough separation from the brood nest(and queen) then the bees will produce queen cells. Using a queen excluder, double screen board or just a super of capped honey will all work.

Ben Framed · January 31, 2022, 11:38:15 AM

QuoteCao
Imho the search for having bees make supercedure cells is a waste of time. Those cells are made when everything looks normal in a hive except the bees want to replace the queen. It it not very often that a beekeeper comes across them. One or two cells in a full hive can easily be missed. All other queen cells are either swarm cells(made with queen still in hive) or emergency cells(made with no queen in hive). So even grafted queen cells could be considered emergency cells. Basically imho a queen cell is a queen cell no matter why or how it was made.

I agree. We know the bees will produce queen cells in a hive during a superseder with the queen 'present'. All these questions that I have ask along with starting this topic was searching for some distinct advantage of Notching Vs simply removing the queen as per Bobs first question on another topic: "Beginner Splitter Hives": reply:8

The only real advantage that might have been plain to me via Notching was the hope of leaving the queen in the brood chamber while using the notch method, creating a superseder circumstance with pinpointed located of specialized queen cells. Since the answer is no to all of this, I must sympathize with Bobs original question and opinion. I see no real advantage of this than simply removing the queen, allowing the bees to pick and chose the cells to be developed into queens than that of Notching, since in notching the queen will still have to be removed anyway and still new cells will be developed anywhere the bees choose.

I am not knocking notching and I can see where it will bring pleasure to those who pursue it; but advantage, I just don't see it.... No harm meant as there is always more than one way to skin the cat. Preference is with the individual.

Phillip

Ben Framed · January 31, 2022, 12:19:37 PM

Quotecao
Instead of moving the queen to the top, just move the frame or frames that you want to notch to the top(a lot less work).

Yes it will and I like it! Thanks cao. As I can see where a DSDB or super of honey will work, but not a QE.

Quotebeesnweeds
No need for a double screen dividing board, just a QE will do.

Quotecao
As long as there is enough separation from the brood nest(and queen) then the bees will produce queen cells. Using a queen excluder, double screen board or just a super of capped honey will all work.

Consider, in early Spring we may not have a honey barrier in between the brood area and new area for the queen, and in this case that is just what we are talking about, 'early spring' as I am sure Bob wants to get off to the races ASAP. If so, a simple QE may not be enough to start the emergency situation in the hive? This new box will simply be an extension of the brood area with only a queen excluder in-between, allowing pheromones continually transfered by nurse bees back and forth.
If so, a QE in-between will not stop the transfer of those pheromones and no emergency cells will be built? That is a function and a purpose of the DSDB; To separate 'via touch' the transfer of queen pheromones by the nurse bees to the area of the queen? Once this transfer of pheromones are stopped by contact, the queen cells will begin. As you stated a honey barrier will work as a DSDB and for the same reasons. But a QE alone in the new area placed 'directly' above the top brood chamber will be no more than a new brood box area?

Thanks,

Phillip

beesnweeds · January 31, 2022, 02:09:03 PM

Sorry, we are not on the same page. I was replying to your comment of placing the queen above the supers. All you need is one QE. The bees below will raise a queen.

Ben Framed · January 31, 2022, 02:14:31 PM

Quote from: beesnweeds on January 31, 2022, 02:09:03 PM
Sorry, we are not on the same page. I was replying to your comment of placing the queen above the supers. All you need is one QE. The bees below will raise a queen.

My appoliges to you beesnweeds, I did not mean supers, I meant the new set up and used the words set up in reply 19, but looking back that was not a very clear description on my part and I can 'easily' see how this got confused. It is my fault for not being more clear in my beginning explanation. Thanks for clearing the air and pointing this out. I may have confused others as well.. Good job!

Phillip

Bill Murray · February 03, 2022, 05:10:07 PM

I am a firm believer in the double screenboard. As I stated in a different post I dont leave home without one. Back to notching. If thats your gig, do it. I personally see no real advantage though. But if someone can explain the advantages, and the time involved outweighs the time involved just using a double screenboard I would give it a try.