Hive not doing well after overwintering, small surviving cluster. How to fix?

[Alklar20]

Hello, everyone. I had two hives last year. One survived the winter, and the other didn't. I inspected the surviving hive today and found the following:

• The surviving bees in a cluster on just 3 or so frames. I would say the cluster was just slightly smaller than a football.
• Low amounts of both honey and pollen.
• Only 1 frame with brood; the surface area the brood covered could fit in the palm of your hand. It was a mixture of capped brood and larvae. I didn't get a good enough look at the frame, so I didn't see any eggs, but I did notice some young larvae, so I'm presuming there is a laying queen.

The hive currently consists of just a single hive body (plus a quilt).

What I Need To Know:
This hive clearly needs to be fed. I have plenty of sugar on hand at the moment, but I also have the hive that died overwinter, which has lots of honey leftover. But there's just one thing I'm concerned about: there is a tiny amount of mold growing on the frames. If I were to put a hive body full of frames of honey taken from the dead hive on top of the live one, would the mold harm the bees? Or would the bees just clean up the mold and use the honey like any other honey they would have?

If it is okay to use the honey from the dead hive, another concern I have is the massive amount of space the new hive body would create for the already weakened hive. Based on the information I gave you about the surviving cluster, would it be a bad idea to go through with the aforementioned plan?

Given the low amount of pollen remaining in the hive, I'm considering feeding pollen substitute to make up for this. Should I feed substitute, or is there enough pollen coming in right now for the hive to be fine on its own?

Given the low amount of bees in the hive right now, I need to know ways to expand the hive's population. Should I do stimulative feeding? If so, how should I go through with it? Should I boost the hive's population by ordering a package, or is it not worth the cost? (If I were to go with the package method, I'm presuming the empty space the hive body full of honey would create wouldn't be an issue.) Also, are there any other ways I could boost the hive's population?

[The15thMember]

This hive clearly needs to be fed. I have plenty of sugar on hand at the moment, but I also have the hive that died overwinter, which has lots of honey leftover. But there's just one thing I'm concerned about: there is a tiny amount of mold growing on the frames. If I were to put a hive body full of frames of honey taken from the dead hive on top of the live one, would the mold harm the bees? Or would the bees just clean up the mold and use the honey like any other honey they would have?

A small amount of mold is no problem for bees.  They will clean it off no problem.  I'd be more concerned as to why the other hive died.  If there were any signs of disease in the dead hive, I'd be hesitant to share with the survivors.   

If it is okay to use the honey from the dead hive, another concern I have is the massive amount of space the new hive body would create for the already weakened hive. Based on the information I gave you about the surviving cluster, would it be a bad idea to go through with the aforementioned plan?

I would not give the weak hive an entire box of honey to protect.  As you say, that's inviting robbing and other pests.  I'd replace some of the frames in the box they are in with honey frames.  If you only have 3 frames of bees, replace several of the frames they are not on with honey frames if they are in need of stores. 

Given the low amount of pollen remaining in the hive, I'm considering feeding pollen substitute to make up for this. Should I feed substitute, or is there enough pollen coming in right now for the hive to be fine on its own?

I've never fed pollen substitute, nor am I familiar with the quality of the pollen flow in your area, but you could also give them some pollen frames from the dead hive if there are any and you feel there were no diseases to spread. 

Given the low amount of bees in the hive right now, I need to know ways to expand the hive's population. Should I do stimulative feeding? If so, how should I go through with it? Should I boost the hive's population by ordering a package, or is it not worth the cost? (If I were to go with the package method, I'm presuming the empty space the hive body full of honey would create wouldn't be an issue.) Also, are there any other ways I could boost the hive's population?

Again I'm not familiar with the flows in your area, but stimulative feeding is best done with 1:1 syrup.  With a hive this small, be sure to feed inside the hive, instead of open feeding, and I wouldn't recommend a boardman feeder, as they can draw robbers.  A jar, baggie, or bucket feeder over the hole in the inner cover would work, as would a frame feeder.  If you have any beekeeping friends with healthy bees who could give you a frame or two of capped brood to boost them, that could help.  I personally don't think a package is worth the price just to boost an existing hive.  A football-sized area of bees and brood doesn't sound irreversibly small to me, but they may need to be babied along for a while.   

Hopefully someone else can answer the questions I don't have the answers for.  Also thank you for being so detailed with your question; it's very helpful when you are trying to give someone advice for them to give you as much information as possible.  I hope everything goes well with them. 

[Ben Framed]

On the surviving hive I would place a feeder on top. Or at least Mountain Camp Style feed on top at the least. I might also add a small pollen patty on the frames tops above the cluster. Depending on SHB in your area, would determine the size of the patty. Do you have any idea why the second hive failed? My guess would be Varroa, problems caused by Varroa such as different types of bee virus related to Varroa. Of course I can only guess.  It is obvious they did not starve it they had abundant honey frames in the hive close to the cluster until its demise. So, while the brood is low in the survival hive I would also treat with OAV.


On the second hive:
If I was going to order a package, I would install it in the 'dead' hive. The bees will clean up the mess. Though I have not experienced your situation, I have seen some of the worse looking 'moldy' dead-out hives from over wintered hives on 'videos' that I have watched while thinking, "no way" yet when the follow up video was introduced the frames were clean as a pin and the hives were thriving.

There are others here with much more experience which may give you more or better advice. Wishing you the best.

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

The15thMember and I posted about the same time. Her advice is more detailed and broken down than mine and I basically agree with what she says.

Phillip

[Oldbeavo]

Cut some polystyrene and fill the space in the hive till the bees have just 4 frames to live on. They can have a frame of honey in the 4.
The less room they have to keep warm the better i would even put a hive mat on top of the frames, bees will grow but don't rush as even if the queen lays today you will not have more bees for 21 days.
From experience if you are too slow removing some of the packing they will chew into it and throw it out the front.
We use 70mm polystyrene which replaces 2 frames but you can use fish boxes, broccoli boxes and just cut more pieces.
The advantage of many packers is that you just remove one and add a frame for them to grow on. Let them grow into the space.

[rast]

Someone may have mentioned it and I missed it, shrink the entrance down to appx a half inch wide.

[Ben Framed]

Alklar20

The hive has a small amount of open brood right now, so I think that doing oxalic acid right now would risk hurting said brood and seriously harming the colony.

The reason I suggested OAV instead of any other marketed mite deterrent is because natural, effective, and it does not harm Bees, Brood, or Larva. When brood is low is the BEST time to treat with OAV. There have been numerous studies for years which back this up. I will list a couple of examples. There are numerous topics here at 'Beemaster' which discuss this subject. To find these, along with many other subjects, simply use the search engine offered at the top of the main page .
Wishing you and your bees the best.

Phillip

https://scientificbeekeeping.com ?
Oxalic Acid: Part 2 Heat Vaporization and Other Methods[/b]
says: ?We treated several colonies for 3 months during winter, once a week with the vaporizer and all colonies survived.? ?With brood, colonies can be treated with the right amount of OA 3 to 4 times, a week apart; there is no harm to bees, queen or brood.? Medhat Nasr confirms that vaporized oxalic is very gentle to ...


https://www.dadant.com ? Da...PDF
Oxalic Acid Vaporization - Questions and Answers - Dadant
OAV does not harm the queen, bees or the brood! And it does not contaminate the comb as poisons do. There are naturally occurring levels of oxalic acid in a hive.

[Kathyp]

I am kind of in your neck of the woods.  You have the size of a smallish swarm.  That shouldn't be a problem if the queen is good.  I would not feed syrup at this time of the year.  Too much moisture is introduced into our already wet air.  You can put dry sugar on the top of the frames either on newspaper or on the inner cover.  You can feed your frames that have honey.  We don't really have a hive beetle problem up here and you want to minimize the times you have to open the hive.  Winter is not over. 

As long as you know you have a queen and have gotten food to them, less is more at this time of the year.  I assume you looked at your brood while you were in there and you know if they have a mite issue?  OA is about the only thing you can use at this time of the year if you need to use something but be careful that you don't have them out running around in the rain/snow/chunky stuff.  Pick the right day.

You can feed pollen if you wish, but dandelions should be popping up soon.  Once you see them you don't need to feed more pollen.  Again, don't over stimulate them/the queen because with so few bees there will not be enough to cover brood and gather. 

[The15thMember]

I am kind of in your neck of the woods.  You have the size of a smallish swarm.  That shouldn't be a problem if the queen is good.  I would not feed syrup at this time of the year.  Too much moisture is introduced into our already wet air.  You can put dry sugar on the top of the frames either on newspaper or on the inner cover.  You can feed your frames that have honey.  We don't really have a hive beetle problem up here and you want to minimize the times you have to open the hive.  Winter is not over. 

As long as you know you have a queen and have gotten food to them, less is more at this time of the year.  I assume you looked at your brood while you were in there and you know if they have a mite issue?  OA is about the only thing you can use at this time of the year if you need to use something but be careful that you don't have them out running around in the rain/snow/chunky stuff.  Pick the right day.

You can feed pollen if you wish, but dandelions should be popping up soon.  Once you see them you don't need to feed more pollen.  Again, don't over stimulate them/the queen because with so few bees there will not be enough to cover brood and gather. 

Kathy's advice is more valuable than any of ours, due to her being more familiar with your local conditions.  Where her advice contradicts the rest us, go with what she says. 

[.30WCF]

I live in NC, but have been working in Renton, Wa all week. Things look pretty dead here in comparison to home. I don?t suspect much pollen is around yet. In fact, I haven?t needed my allergy med here, and last week I thought I had a sinus infection from all the pollen. It?s just laying in the streets back home.

If you have a nuc box you could move them into that, or use a follower board, or the foam. But it?s not been so cold here in Renton, that I would even worry with that.

I?d probably give them some light syrup and get that package or another nuc started for insurance anyway.


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[TheHoneyPump]

All great advice above. Good to go back and review each of them in detail.  Basically summarizing what you are looking at is..

1- significantly reduce hive space so the small colony can control their environment temperature and humidity in the hive. When the colony is growing and expanding later, give them more space then. For now, really compact them.
2- in doing the reduction, add feed frames of honey from the dead out into the smaller space and/or put syrup feed on in a jar or pail. Take out empty combs, put honey combs in. Shake and brush the bees off of the removed combs down onto the honey combs
3- apply controls for varroa mites. small spring clusters are often either a lingering mite infestation that is holding them back or nosema buildup.

A winter dead hive left full of honey is almost always a mite-virus combo killed hive nowadays, like 99.9%

Hope that helps1

[Michael Bush]

If you have a warm enough day for them to fly, compress the hive.  Remove all empty frames and try to get them down to one box.