New Hive

[Acebird]

Yeah but in 9 months that box would have been full of comb and a full blown hive.  It would be much harder to get the comb out.  You would have no access to where the comb attached at the top.  If I can't get help on the next one I am going to just slam the table box on top of a box of frames like you would do in a package install.  The problem is no chance to practice how hard to slam.  It has to be hard enough to knock the bees down but not so hard that it breaks the comb.

[Acebird]

Any guesses on timeframe?  How long they were in the box?

[Ben Framed]

No longer than it takes to lay and have capped brood. They will start making comb almost imminently.
Phillip

[Bill Murray]

Even if it breaks the comb just rubber band it back into a frame.

[Ben Framed]

You are right Bill. The new comb is much more difficult to work with as it will not only break but bend as well. Setting it on the bottom bar, even with space gap, from the top of the comb to the top bar would have probably worked with enough rubber band support. At least enough to have saved this hive.

Phillip

[Bill Murray]

Sometime I have the CRS syndrome, or as I call it now A Biden moment, and do stupid things like not have enough frames with me  then forget them next time, medium feeder in deep box cause it was all I had at the time and forget to switch it out. etc. etc. etc.

Ill have nice drawn comb hanging  off the lid, off the bottom of the feeder. Depends on how Im feeling that day when I scrape it off..... but rubber bands work well.

[Acebird]

What size rubber bands should I get for medium frames?  What spacing do you use or how many per frame?

[Acebird]

Ill have nice drawn comb hanging  off the lid, off the bottom of the feeder.

I think you can appreciate it is much easier to shave comb off a lid vs. a 16 x 16 x 20 in deep box.  They also attached the comb to the side of the box.

[The15thMember]

What size rubber bands should I get for medium frames?  What spacing do you use or how many per frame?

I use all mediums and since I'm foundationless, I rubber band comb in all the time.  I use the plain, uncolored, normal sized rubber bands that you can get a Walmart or Staples or wherever.  If I've got a big piece of comb, I'll put maybe 4 or 5 rubber bands on the frame vertically, pretty close together down on one end, then slide the comb in, and then space the rubber bands evenly on the frame.  I also sometimes cross the rubber bands like a X depending on how things end up as I'm working.  Once the bees have connected the comb, they'll chew through the rubber bands and dump them out in front of the hive.           

[BeeMaster2]

Ace,
From the pictures, those bees were in that hive for about a month.
You want a rubber bands that will go around both of your hands placed vertically. In other words one hand over the other when the band is stretched tight.
I would not bang the bees to get them out. I have way too many bees get very mean, even when it wasn?t their hive, just another hive on the same platform.
Smoke them properly and just slowly remove the comb. Watch some of JPs videos. Don?t wear gloves. With bare smoked hands you can slide your hand on the comb and the bees will move out of the way.
Good luck.
Jim Altmiller

[Acebird]

I would not bang the bees to get them out.

Yeah, probably not a good idea.  It is bound to kill developing brood.

Don?t wear gloves. With bare smoked hands you can slide your hand on the comb and the bees will move out of the way.

I was sure I was going to have to go glove less.  No way to get your fingers between combs with gloves on.
You know I noticed another thing about this hive.  Like the other hive I had they don't store nectar.  The combs were just about all brood.  That is not common up north.  They also had hive beetles.
Do you think the comb is worth saving?  There is a lot of capped brood in the cells which is surely dead.

[Bill Murray]

Do you think the comb is worth saving?  There is a lot of capped brood in the cells which is surely dead
Definitely. freeze it. I digress, depends on what your plans are moving forward.

[Acebird]

If I freeze then what?

[BeeMaster2]

Ace,
Freezing it will kill any bugs. After 3 days, take it out, put it in front of a fan to warm it up and dry out any condensation, at least a week to dry out the brood, then seal it in a large baggie. When you are ready to use it, put it in frames using it rubber bands. Make sure it is right side up. The bees will clean it up in a couple of days, if not one day.
Jim Altmiller

[FloridaGardener]

Aww, Sorry about that...white wax is hard to work with especially in hot ambient temps.  When I do a cutout I use a QX as Queen "includer" for a few days.  Not long because of drones.  Just long enough that they are forced to clean house and set up again in the new hive.

If you have a beek buddy I suggest to freeze/sanitize the comb, then put it in your buddy's hive.  You'll be "owed" when you're ready for a couple frames of brood or comb.  White wax  is hard to save.  It will crumble when taken out of the freezer, and it can't be stacked/crushed, it has to be upright and protected from compression.

Your hive works great as a bait hive.  There are large swarms in Fla.  I've opened bait hives to find scouts flying inside, circling around!  Use two mediums or one deep at least.  I put one frame or two partial frames of old brood comb on one edge, and knock the bottom off a couple of frames but leave top & sides, so the bees don't percieve a barrier. - top-bar style, in a way.  Leave the rest empty.  Spray a whiff of lure in there, check weekly to get rid of palmetto bug families. 

In NW Fla there still are swarms for another couple of months.  They will find your hive.  Who knows, I've had swarms leave bait hives then appear to come back when they don't find something better. 

[FloridaGardener]

PS - re: no stored nectar. IMHO.
New hive = bees spend every resource including labor on more bees.
Florida = usually a little forage always.  Not a flow, just forage.  July/August is Liriope, wild sumac, mexican clover (richardia scabrosa), ornamentals like bottle brush/vitex bloom intermittently,  roadside weeds etc. Not enough to store, just enough to keep nestbuilding.

Hive beetles -  I've seen them come along in swarms.   They're a plague.

[Bill Murray]

The mexican clover just came out here in the last 3 days. its outstanding forage if there is enough of it.

[Acebird]

mexican clover (richardia scabrosa),

Haven't seen it.

Hive beetles -  I've seen them come along in swarms.   They're a plague.

Yes, I can see were feral hives have an urge to move.  Varroa doesn't get a chance to take hold because the beetles drive the bees out.
I was not able to save any brood comb from the last hive.  I am wondering if the comb I do have is not acceptable for the bees.  Maybe I should just use foundation like an install and forget the tattered comb.

[FloridaGardener]

You won't get a swarm on foundation unless you leave only a sheet or two built out.  They see it as a wall within the hive cavity.

SHB and wax moths this year are the worst I've ever battled.  I think Varroa are hindered also by a brood break in the hot summer/relative dearth... whereas SHB/moth take advantage of a diminishing hive population patrolling over pollen stores. 

This year I'm starting a new policy of pulling surplus pollen frames after the main flow tapers off in mid-June or so.   

[Bill Murray]

I just came in from west of live oak. Those bees have just been overflowing all summer. Long story short. I was going to pull treatments, do mite check, make up 2- 4 frame nucs from each of the hives in that yard. Nectar just started trickling in. fair amount of drones.

Mite check revealed anywhere from 4 to 11 mites per hive.

Its hot as blazes I treated with Apivar 42 days ago. Im going to leave the treatment till sunday when I go back out for all the good a couple days will do.

Im thinking of caging the queens on on a frame. over some capped brood. #8 wire mesh. I just dont know how big to make the push in cages.