New Hive

Acebird · July 29, 2022, 10:13:34 AM

I picked up this hive last evening from a friends back yard. It is in the 16x16 square brown table and there entrance is the hand hole. I blocked the one in the back. I inverted this table and put a box of comb on top with the hope that they will move the nest to the combs in the standard medium box. The hive is very light so I added a jar of syrup in the top just in case they need it to fix comb in the top frames. There are two sets of combs started about 6 each oriented 90 degrees from each other near the entrance. I know I should have taken a picture.

Does anyone think this will work? How long should I wait for this experiment to take hold?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1kwQA2dBYeMgkmHM9

Acebird · July 29, 2022, 10:31:45 AM

Alright I opened it up again and took some photos. I don't know where I got the 90 degree orientation because they are all in line but in two corners.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/FAA8gRe8EPSLiNPx5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VVjUDRXv9zEp9cLv9

Ben Framed · July 29, 2022, 10:43:34 AM

Brian congratulations on your new hive. Unfortunately the last photos are a little dark for me to clearly see the situation. I will take a shot offering a little advice. It gets very hot in your area, I would advise doing a cut-out instead of a flip over for more than one reason. Without adequate support on the bottom of these free hanging combs, the heat may allow the combs to swag which could turn into a real mess if they sway over onto each other. A quick cut out will not only avoid this but will save the brood comb, as well as brood inside the brood comb, and will be a real boost to you new hive.

Phillip

BeeMaster2 · July 29, 2022, 02:48:06 PM

Ace,
I tried to do the same many years ago when I was living in Jacksonville. It was late fall and I picked up a large log from a tree removal company that had a large hive in it. I put a hive box on it over the top hole. They never moved up, the next spring they absconded.
I would also recommend doing a full cutout and place them in your box.
Jim Altmiller

Lesgold · July 29, 2022, 07:15:27 PM

Hi Brian,

I did a similar thing about 7 years ago. Bees had moved into a possum box that was located in a tree. The hive was taken home and set up on a stand. The top of the box was removed and an 8 frame box was attached to the top. I made sure that the distance between the established comb and the new frames was small so there was a natural ?bridge? for the queen to move across. The entrance was blocked and a new entrance was created above the new frames. My thinking was that the bees would have to move through the new box to get out. From memory, it turned into a nice little hive that produced some good honey.

FloridaGardener · July 29, 2022, 11:50:30 PM

I know only .01% as much as Jim but I agree to cut it out for sure.

But I would keep an eye on it, and wait until a couple days after some new brood is out, because that white wax will crumple especially in this summer heat. Also the swarm bees will be old then, and some brood will be lost in the cutout, and it will keep population higher if the first round hatches, so there are new nurses. Losing only eggs ... less impact than losing capped brood. I'm sure there will soon be brood in all stages soon if you are feeding tho...
But one generation through the comb, and the comb will have a cocoon to make it stronger for the cutout.

And I would reduce that entrance more against SHB, moths, robbers.

Acebird · July 30, 2022, 07:37:03 AM

Can anyone hazard a guess on how long they have been in this table based on the development of the comb? The home owner was guessing 4 weeks but I don't think it was anywhere near that long. The hive is light as a feather so there is no stored nectar. I am reluctant to do the cut out because I have never done one and I think it will set them back at a critical time. And there is a good chance butter fingers will harm the queen. Looking down in this heat with a suit on my glasses fog up in less then a minute.

Acebird · July 30, 2022, 07:49:07 AM

Quote from: Lesgold on July 29, 2022, 07:15:27 PM
I made sure that the distance between the established comb and the new frames was small so there was a natural ?bridge? for the queen to move across.

The table is fake masonry, probably some sort of plastic. The home owner is looking to get the table back so I can't modify it. This is another problem with a cut out because it is nearly an arms length to reach the comb. There is not enough room to get both hands in the box at the same time.

BeeMaster2 · July 30, 2022, 09:08:49 AM

Ace,
Leave it in the box until BeeFest. If you bring it here, we can do a cutout for you. Bee sure to bring enough hive equipment to put them in.
Jim Altmiller

Acebird · July 30, 2022, 09:25:59 AM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on July 30, 2022, 09:08:49 AM
Ace,
Leave it in the box until BeeFest. If you bring it here, we can do a cutout for you. Bee sure to bring enough hive equipment to put them in.
Jim Altmiller

That is not a bad idea. Thanks for the offer. I will check them in a week to see what is happening. Depending on what I see I might take the box of frames off and right the hive for the next beefest. I would say the volume of the box is about two 8 frame mediums.
Judging from the one year I had a swarm down here winter is a dearth so if I right the hive what are my options for feeding through the winter? I can't believe I am going against my nature for feeding but southern fl is a different nut to crack.
Are you going to start beefest on a Friday or Saturday?

BeeMaster2 · July 30, 2022, 01:13:37 PM

It starts on Friday morning. You will probably need to feed them. Use the super to seal in the top and put in a feeder in it.
See the link below for information on BeeFest 2023.
Jim Altmiller

Acebird · July 31, 2022, 08:54:35 AM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on July 30, 2022, 01:13:37 PM
It starts on Friday morning. You will probably need to feed them. Use the super to seal in the top and put in a feeder in it.

If the hive is going to remain in the table box I am going to have to flip it back over otherwise next spring there will be a huge mess or they will leave because of inverted comb. If I flip it back over then feeding might be a problem. Maybe I can put a box on the bottom for feeding.

Bill Murray · July 31, 2022, 10:42:37 AM

Im just thinking here, a little drawn comb, 1 frame of brood and some beego to force them up into the box?

I dont have much experience here but I did watch a guy do that with a tree that was cut down once.

My opinion was it was interesting to watch but he could have bought a nuc, or made 5 for the time he invested in getting those bees.

Acebird · July 31, 2022, 03:49:25 PM

Quote from: Bill Murray on July 31, 2022, 10:42:37 AM
Im just thinking here, a little drawn comb, 1 frame of brood and some beego to force them up into the box?

I dont have much experience here but I did watch a guy do that with a tree that was cut down once.

My opinion was it was interesting to watch but he could have bought a nuc, or made 5 for the time he invested in getting those bees.

There is 6 frames of simi drawn comb above them now. I can't picture beego forcing the bees, especially the queen, out of one box where they drew fresh comb and into another box of old comb.
In FL I do not know what the bees will do. In NY I could almost guarantee they would go up into the combs above and leave the comb at the bottom once the brood was out of the cells.
My wife is predicting if the bees do not go up into the box I provided by the time beefest comes around then they will be dead or gone. If they do go up then I won't need to bring the hive to beefest for extraction. So the experiment continues...

Ben Framed · July 31, 2022, 04:00:38 PM

I am not trying to be contradictory here but do have a question in this line of thinking, if 'bee go' will run even the queen off of brood, will the bees stop in the new provision or continue to escape leading to abscond?
Why chance it when a simple cutout will fix the situation?

Phillip

Acebird · July 31, 2022, 04:18:59 PM

I too think beego would result in an abscond. I know to most people a cut out is simple. To me not so much. If this experiment fails I will try a cut out on the next one. I am certain a swarm will move into the table again now that it has had a swarm. It is a perfect swarm box.

Acebird · August 02, 2022, 08:47:29 AM

Failed experiment. Florida Gardener prediction came true. The comb didn't crumble but it laid over on its side. Bees left yesterday. Too bad, there was a lot of brood started. The feeding probably gave them the nectar they needed to find another home. I am confused as to why they didn't use the box of comb I gave them. Probably because of the intervention and deemed it a bad place to live.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/or97gTZV9tbXiN3aA
So I have to find someone local that can help me with a cut out on the next try. It seems to me that I would have to vac the bees up before trying to remove the comb. Can a queen survive going through a vac hose? Or if it was you how would you proceed?

Ben Framed · August 02, 2022, 08:51:32 AM

Quote from: Ben Framed on July 29, 2022, 10:43:34 AM
Brian congratulations on your new hive. Unfortunately the last photos are a little dark for me to clearly see the situation. I will take a shot offering a little advice. It gets very hot in your area, I would advise doing a cut-out instead of a flip over for more than one reason. Without adequate support on the bottom of these free hanging combs, the heat may allow the combs to swag which could turn into a real mess if they sway over onto each other. A quick cut out will not only avoid this but will save the brood comb, as well as brood inside the brood comb, and will be a real boost to you new hive.

Phillip

Just as I feared. Sorry Ace...

Phillip

Acebird · August 02, 2022, 09:14:41 AM

Oh sorry, I guess you were right Phil.
Judging from these combs how long do you think they were there? There was at least one round of brood hatched.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Dpwzfk4ytUm9L8zi9

Ben Framed · August 02, 2022, 09:20:19 AM

Not long at all!
Brian, I am sorry too, as my advice would most likely not saved this hive either. I did not realize this was new comb. I really doubt that you would have been able to save by cutout out in your heat with new comb. Unlike M&Ms, (lol), new comb in the heat seems to melt in your hands!

In this case another approach would have been needed. Perhaps Jims reply 8.

Re: New Hive
<<Reply #8 on: July 30, 2022, 09:08:49 am>

Ace,
Leave it in the box until BeeFest. If you bring it here, we can do a cutout for you. Bee sure to bring enough hive equipment to put them in.
Jim Altmiller"

This would have given the comb time to age and become manageable.

Phillip