Swarm Catching

[beesnweeds]

I?m wondering if they will develop a laying worker if that is the case.

The bees in the swarm trap?  A few bees can't draw comb and raise drone brood.

All I saw during Thursday?s inspection were practice queen cells but I will stay on top of the hive and be on the lookout for the real McCoys.

Im not sure what's going on in your hive but that would be a separate issue from workers drifting to the trap.  Honestly, bees dont practice anything.  They dont live long enough.

If they are just my strays, why aren?t they bringing anything in? Are they just lazy workers hiding out? If nothing else, I think it?s interesting.

They're not strays, they're bees from your hive drifting to the trap.  Turn the entrance of the trap 180. They may be bringing in something you just can't see it like pollen.  Bees aren't perfect, every foraging trip isn't successful.

[Terri Yaki]

The bees in the swarm trap?  A few bees can't draw comb and raise drone brood.

OK, that does make sense.

Im not sure what's going on in your hive but that would be a separate issue from workers drifting to the trap.  Honestly, bees dont practice anything.  They dont live long enough.

This is contrary to what I've heard more than once but I am open to learning just what is going on.

They're not strays, they're bees from your hive drifting to the trap.  Turn the entrance of the trap 180. They may be bringing in something you just can't see it like pollen.  Bees aren't perfect, every foraging trip isn't successful.

My hive is all bringing in orange pollen, which I believe is tulip poplar, hot and heavy but the swarm trap bees have nothing. There is a huge tulip poplar about 200' from my apiary and the state forest behind me is full of them as well. Even if only 1% had a successful trip, I would be able to see it.

Whatever is going on there is mysterious and interesting.

[Ben Framed]

Scout Bees don?t just drift in an empty resource-less hive without reason. Nor do scout bees bring in resources to a colony-less  dwelling .  They can be baited to the hive as you have done in hopes of swarm catching.

Scout bees from our own hives will check out abandoned hives. They are looking to take not give: or looking for a potential new home.

[beesnweeds]

Whatever is going on there is mysterious and interesting.

Certainly is, maybe it's a slow swarm and they will add bees little by little and then bring a queen over.

[The15thMember]

The bees are not investigating the trap, they are drifting to it.  I dont know if it would deter a swarm, maybe?  But in its current location its confusing a new beekeeper and a new hive.  I know it's an unpopular observation on this thread but by the video and Terris posts Im fairly certain it's just his bees drifting.

I don?t feel like your thoughts are unpopular just unique among us and I do consider the possibility.

Agreed.  I think your opinion is raising some interesting questions, beesnweeds.  We are all just trying to figure out what's going on here, and everyone's expertise is valuable.  I don't have any experience with swarm traps really, so I'm learning a lot through the whole conversation. 

80 ft. just seems far to drift to me, and I think Terri's comment about how most of his bees are bringing in pollen but these bees aren't is a interesting observation.  I also feel like the amount of bees exhibiting this odd behavior is very small.  How many scout bees do those of you
who put of swarm traps regularly typically see before a swarm moves in? 

Im not sure what's going on in your hive but that would be a separate issue from workers drifting to the trap.  Honestly, bees dont practice anything.  They dont live long enough.

This is contrary to what I've heard more than once but I am open to learning just what is going on.

I think it depends on your definition of "practice".  I think of queens cups more as preparation.  The bees sometimes build them in case they needed them, and sometimes they end up using them and sometimes they don't.  Orientation fights could also be considered "flying practice", but the purpose is really so the bees can memorize the area around the hive, not to practice flying in the sense that a baby bird does.   

[Ben Framed]

Not to be disagree with Beesnweeds post but I like a trap around my hives for a couple of reasons.  I have one in my back yard and I do not see bees looking for resource very often but when I do see a bee around it, the first thing I do is walk down to my hives and look in the trees.  I have hived at least three of my own before they even picked a home using this.

Been there, done that.  At least 5 of mine were caught that way this year.  The only difference is I have a stack of empty boxes that are getting ready to be put on hives instead of a swarm trap. 

Trapping swarms is like fishing, the more hooks in the water the more chances to catch one.  But there are days that the fish aren't biting no matter what you do.

Well said Cao  ....

Since Terri reported of having 'no' queen cells, I highly doubt his own bees are 'swarm scouting' for a new home at this time. That does not mean other bees from another source, or other sources are not. Who knows it could be scout bees from far away from all we know... Fishing; I like that analysis Cao, it fits!
lol

[gww]

It could be that there was a swarm and it left somewhere while bees were scouting and those are lost bees coming to a place that got marked earlier.  In this case, they probably eventually drift back to the hive they came from.   There is no real way to know.  I had a large bunch come to a trap and do the figure eight moves around the tree the trap was on only to fly back off to never be seen.  I thought this is it but it was not.  I have brought traps home as I was pretty sure only to find that they had really moved into a different trap which is a caution against wasting resources of several traps in one area as spreading them thinner and a mile apart would increase the odds in my opinion.  My best guess when I see bees just coming and going in and not really measuring is they are taking something from the trap, I always thought minerals from the wood or such but mostly bees don't care about traps or lemon grass oil unless they are looking or maybe during a real derth at which times they will check me out also when just sitting on the back porch.

[Terri Yaki]

I believe the mystery has been solved. I got 20 non-stop minutes of this.

And some of this.

[The15thMember]

Hoo boy, that looks real!

[Terri Yaki]

Hoo boy, that looks real!

I know! It was extra busy this morning when I gassed up my mower back there and when I got done mowing, about an hour and a half later, it was even busier and I was watching, hoping to see them swarm. Then I looked at the memory card on my camera and saw four, five minute videos of all bees inbound. So, while I was mowing, they were moving. I looked in the side ports and saw bees in there working. I can only see the outer frame on the top box but bees were there working on the outer frame. And the bottom box has empty frames with popsicle sticks glued in the top and coated with wax. They were working on those too.

Now, when should I move them to their permanent spot and should I feed them?

[The15thMember]

Now, when should I move them to their permanent spot and should I feed them?

I'm not sure about when to move them, but swarms come with full bellies, and if they are drawing already, they should be good to go where food is concerned.  Congratulations! 

[Terri Yaki]

Thanks, I'm pretty happy about it.

[gww]

Congratulation.  I personally would wait to dark and then set the whole trap where I intend to move them permanently.  I always do it as quick as possible cause it is my belief that when they wake up and if it is within the first few days of them moving, I think they think they picked the new spot and are more likely to stay.  Some like to leave them till they get brood cause is is less likely that they will leave the babies.  It will probably work out whatever you choose. 

I like to get the trap back just in case there is an after swarm eight days from now.  I have moved swarms just eighty feet and had some portion of the bees go back to the old trap sight but it worked out eventually.  The reason for moving near dark is just incase a virgin is on a mating flight she will probably be in at that point.  Once the trap wakes up at the place I am going to put it permanently I move the bees in to a hive if I can but know I can put it off a day or two as well. 

I have never had a swarm leave but some people have.  I used to put one or two drops of lemon grass oil on the floor of the hive I am putting them in but am inconsistent on that and it has never bit me.  Some put a brood comb with brood in it from a different hive and that might be the best guarantee but I have only did that once and so far so good.

It is going to work, however you handle it or at least the odds are in you favor.  The worst in my view is to let them get established and then try to move them as that gives the biggest chance for them to just return to the trap site rather then stay in the hive.  It is the three mile rule where you can move them three feet or three miles and be ok but it is risky to move them 80 feet and expect them not to get lost.  My vote is tonight cause then they may think it is their idea.  If you move them tonight, maybe partially block the entrance with a little grass that they can move or put a little branch partially blocking the entrance so they kinda know something has changed though they will probably get it just from the shaking during the move.  I would do this with a trap being moved just 80 feet or one I let get established even if moving three miles.
Good luck

[Terri Yaki]

My vote is tonight cause then they may think it is their idea.
Good luck

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking but I am still learning. And here's a freeze frame from mid move. I'm pretty sure I got 'em.

[gww]

Just go out right before dark (maybe 45 min or hour) and watch them come in and if there is a line of returning bees, they are there.  If some of the bees get confused and end up back at the trap site but most are at the hive, I have, if it was enough bees to even worry about, just let them go back into the trap and then take them back an either dump them on the landing board or tip the open trap against it to let the climb in.  It is possible due to the distance but probably not probable.

[gww]

Your only mistake was mowing the lawn instead of standing by the trap while they come in cause that is an amazing thing to be in the middle of.  Cameras capture better for others though.

[Terri Yaki]

My trap is my hive. I'll see if I can scrounge up another one to put in its place. I think I can.

[Terri Yaki]

And how bad should I block the front of this thing?

[gww]

Not bad and if grass, not packed so tight they can't move it.  I sometimes just lean a little branch up against the front of the hive.  I do what is easiest at the time.

[gww]

Got any junk boards around?  The swarm will only need one medium for a month, put the other one back up as a trap.