A General Hive Question

[Michael Bush]

>What makes screen bottom boards better for swarm catching?

In my opinion screened bottoms are terrible for a bait hive.  But they are great for the box you're taking them home in.

[Terri Yaki]

My next question is in regards to the new nuc that I made out of my largest hive. I'm planning to go into it on Monday and see if I can find a queen. The queen cell was open this past Monday and I'm thinking that if it was a successful queen, she should be in there and mated. Am I wrong? And if I don't find one, then I need to decide what to do. Scenario #1: No queen and no queen cells in Hive #1 so I need to merge. Paper merge above the queen excluder? Scenario #2: No queen but queen supersedure cells in some stage in Hive #1. Should I take the old queen and move her over to the nuc? I have cages that I can place over her and keep her on a frame of comb. This Monday will make two weeks since I split the nuc and if I read correctly, three weeks of no queen results in laying workers. Is that right? Any other thoughts or options?

[gww]

She might be in there but I would not worry too much if she is not and she is probably not laying yet.  One thing you can look for that would be a good sign that all is well is a cleaned out laying area in the comb showing the bees are confident things are working and they are getting ready for her.  I give thirty days from hatch before panic.  I don't see eggs or queens for that matter very well and so usually look for larva and that might add a little time.  You should be able to tell from the comb though.

[The15thMember]

I agree with gww, the timing on queen mating, queen laying, and laying workers is very variable in real life, it's not like at the 3 week mark exactly the workers will start laying because the queen getting mated is now hopeless.  I always give queens at least an extra week, sometimes two, if they are not yet laying at the 3-4 week check for eggs, and 9 times out of 10 everything is chugging along nicely when I check the second time.  If they have empty polished cells and there are no laying workers (I'd be shocked if there were), just wait another week and check again.   

[NigelP]

If you are really unsure cut out some eggs from another hive and place in your nuc. If they don't draw queen cells you have your answer, if they do then you are ahead for getting a second queen. I usually cut a small triangle out from the comb of the doner hive . Take a frame from your nuc cut out a similar triangle and replace with the triangle containing eggs. Alternatively just stick a whole frame in with eggs.

[Ben Framed]

This is my queen test as well Nigel, but your idea of the triangular piece of comb is new to me and a great idea.  Thanks NigelP for posting that idea.

Adding Terri; make sure you replace the egg piece of comb in the position in which it was removed from the donor frame if you go Nigels first route. I just simply put a whole frame (as in Nigel?s second option) in but I really like Nigel?s idea.
And If you decide  to use a whole frame instead; when the proper amount of time has passed with no queen cells formed, you can place the test frame back in the original hive (if desired). I just leave it. Good luck and let us know the results if you try either method!
Thanks

Phillip

[Terri Yaki]

All sounds like good advice, thanks. I have all plastic foundation, will cutting a triangle out work? As for the nuc, they're starting to fly now but I don't see them bringing in any pollen yet. Monday's inspection should be interesting.

[Ben Framed]

With plastic foundation I wouldn?t try it. That stuff is pretty tough.

Yes after inspection you will know more. Hopefully you will find all stages of a brood including eggs.

Being it is so late in June, how is your flow?

Terry, the reason I am asking is because my first summer after the dearth set in at my location, a couple of my queens stopped laying.( At least for a period of time). I could not find ANY eggs and I really thought those queens were dead! I could not easily spot the queens to begin with and one was the exact color of the workers and those queens were not marked. I had assumed then, and I?m still assuming,  -  once they had stopped laying their abdomens may have shrunk making it even harder to find them-  especially being a beginner not use to spotting the queen, therefore making it harder for me to find those queens on those bee infested frames.


Adding once they started back laying I could once again find them.

Phillip

[Terri Yaki]

I'm not confident in my queenspotting skills, particularly if she's not marked, like this one won't be. On the up side, it's not overpopulated so she should be easier to find. I'm still oblivious on what flows around here and when, I'll see if I can get that off of my local club. But OTOH, I do have two other hives to use as comparison for what's going on inside. I've been feeding my swarm hive because they're guzzling it like drunken sailors and I don't believe it will hurt anything. I'm not looking to harvest honey off of them but I figure if they're not using it to make wax, they're using it to build foodstores, which they can use during the dearth when it hits. The swarm hive is pulling in a bit of pollen so I know there's still some out there but hive #1 is hardly bringing any in. And I can't tell what the nuc hive is doing but they're not running pollen at the moment. The still don't get out too early.

[Ben Framed]

I wasn?t confident either. Confidence will build with experience.

TheHoneyPump  posted a confident building topic on how to spot the queen along with trivia pictures where the queen would be half hidden, or almost hidden in some cases, for the benefit of newer  beekeepers to inspect. I thought that was mighty nice of him to take the time to do that. I wish I could find that link address but so far I haven?t.

Phillip

[The15thMember]

You can also look at practice queen-spotting pictures like that on any social media if you are on Instagram or Facebook or anything like that.  Just follow #queenspotting and you'll get tons of practice videos and pictures. 

[Terri Yaki]

I picked up a copy of 'Queen Spotting' by Hilary Kearny and I have been practicing with it. I'm even less confident that I would recognize an unmated queen. I'll work hard at trying next week when I look inside.

[The15thMember]

I picked up a copy of 'Queen Spotting' by Hilary Kearny and I have been practicing with it.

Oh cool, I follow Hilary on Instagram, but I don't have that book.  She may cover this but just a couple pointers I've found helpful: Really allow your eyes to take in the whole frame and let your brain notice which bee is different.  Drones will mess with this, but with some practice, your brain will eventually stop flagging them.  Queens that are the same color as the majority of their workers can be tricky, as can very flighty or very tame queens.  Flighty queens will try to hide, and tame queens will keep on laying, obscuring their long abdomens in the cells.  Another technique is try to train your eyes to notice the queen's retinue of workers in a circle around her. 

I'm even less confident that I would recognize an unmated queen.

That's difficult for everyone, so don't beat yourself up about that.  Unmated queens are sometimes not much bigger than workers, they usually won't have a retinue yet, and they tend to be very flighty. 

[Ben Framed]

> That's difficult for everyone, so don't beat yourself up about that.  Unmated queens are sometimes not much bigger than workers, they usually won't have a retinue yet, and they tend to be very flighty.

True; And they look kind of like a wasp with the thin abdomen. (In my opinion).

[Michael Bush]

I am looking for hundreds of virgin queens every week and sometimes I can't find them in a two frame mating nuc.  Sometimes I can, but only because of a lot of practice.  It's risky, though, as they sometimes fly off.

[Terri Yaki]

And now for my next question: My split nuc is doing well in its five frame nuc box and I want to give them their best chance of making it through the winter. I'm thinking that my next options are 1) Add another five frame to the top of that one, 2) Move them into a ten frame box 3) One of the above and feed syrup. I am of the mindset that I should feed syrup as long as they take it because I am not going to harvest honey and all I can be doing is helping them out with it. I know it's getting late in the year and think that that should come into play with this decision.

[Ben Framed]

Terri my first years goal was similar to yours. My goal was not honey but bees. I think I might have told you the story of taking 5, 5 frame nucs through the winter? I open fed pollen throughout the winter months. The bees would fly to pollen at 43 degrees (if I remember correctly). Plus I fed sugar syrup 1/1 through out the winter and bordman style. This did two things for me, a beginner. It insured they might make it through the winter without starving and assured they had plenty of what they needed for nutrition from the pollen substitute. I am a firm believer that pollen is just as important as liquid for colony growth and health.

As I may or may not have told you. Those 5 nucs came out of winter thriving! My location no doubt is a bit warmer than yours. Still even through the Winter we will have days and days below 42 degrees and many times, weeks below freezing on and off through out the Winter season. But the days they could fly, they did gather both pollen sub and sugar syrup as well.

[Ben Framed]

Adding: I am thinking that they used the sugar syrup as much as possible and left their stores alone as much as possible but this I can not prove as I did not open the nucs until Spring. Michale Palmer teaches about how he over winters Nucs successfully in even Vermont. David at Barnyard Bees taught me how he does it in Georgia, a winter climate similar to mine, in fact he is almost due East a couple states over from me . I am in Northern Mississippi.

Phillip

[Bill Murray]

So I am with Philip,Im way further south than you also, but I see no reason you cant overwinter a 5 frame, If they are healthy, have plenty of bees and ample stores. I would stack on the 5 frame, Feed, and condense down before real winter sets in  if needed. 

[Terri Yaki]

Thanks guys, that sounds like a plan to me. I have two more five frame boxes in the pipeline for now. I'll give them some room and feed all the syrup they'll take. They're dong good job of bringing in pollen and it looks like they're bringing in more than my other two hives.