Hello from Macclenny, FL

[BeeMaster2]

Michelle,
You mentioned the fresh smell of a new hive. Is the inside of the hive painted in some way?
How much comb have the bees produced?
If they are making a lot of comb, the small amount of wax is not abnormal.  When they stop producing lots of wax they will probably use the wax that was dropped. Bees do move wax around when food runs low.
Jim Altmiller

[Michelle]

Is the inside of the hive painted in some way?
How much comb have the bees produced?

The hive was dipped in wax at manufacturing. Nothing out of the usual.

When I peeked in this morning to check on the feeder situation,I discovered they had  absconded. 
All that remains is a little orphan beard outside the hive. There were about 8 dead bees on the hive floor.

They had only made a small piece of comb on one frame in all the time they were here (14 days).

Conclusion - it was a weak swarm with a weak queen.

Jim, should I rehang my swarm traps here or is it fruitless to try for another swarm this year? We are not deterred. If swarm season is over, I will aim for a swarm or package next year.

Thanks, everyone for your support!

[Ben Framed]

I don't usually cage a queen when I catch a swarm

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Nor do I unless I find multiple queens. And this is speaking in terms of a swarm on a limb or something similar, not in a swarm catch box. In the case of multiple queens I was taught by Jim and others here, that multiple queens usually mean virgins are onboard as well unless one or more swarms joined together.

See the topic Dissecting a Swarm
https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=54466.msg495006#msg495006

In your case, since the swarm was caught in a swarm trap, I dont know. Could have been a virgin swarm. (Swarmed with a Virgin Queen perhaps.)

If so; It could be that the virgin caged queen was left caged a little too long and the bees simply gave up and went back home. I am using this for just one example of several possibilities.  If a virgin queen is the queen of the swarm, it would seem imperative that she is allowed to mate ASAP. Otherwise the nature of survival will take its course and the bees may not stay with an unmated queen for very long. Just a guess in the dark. There are other possibilities as well.

Was this your first bees? If so, dont give up. May I encourage you too persevere!

Phillip

[animal]

Is there a chance it was a virgin queen and she's off getting busy? If so, is there a chance they'll return?
or would there be more bees left at the hive if that was the case?
or would the queen be in the orphan beard?
just curious

[Terri Yaki]

That's disheartening that they took off, sorry to hear about it. Hopefully, you can learn from it and prevent it somehow next time.

[Ben Framed]

Animal I wish I could give you a yea or naw answer. I will have to guess once they go back they will probably stay, most probably leaving an orphaned queen.
I really doubt they will return to the relocated swarm box, once their permanent home is established again at the old location.
The original hive which Queen was left to mate unrestricted, is probably well on its way by now. So I would not think they would go back to the swarm box to take up residence with the orphaned queen (if that be the case).  🤷🏻‍♂️

Please allow, this is based on my own theory and could be completely wrong. 

Phillip

[Ben Framed]

That's disheartening that they took off, sorry to hear about it. Hopefully, you can learn from it and prevent it somehow next time.

We all learn as we go. It could be other possibilities that they may have left as well. I hope the heavy hitters will chime in and discuss other possibilities as well. Together we learn. 

Phillip

[animal]

so if the queen had gone off to mate, the rest of the bees would have stayed behind for awhile for her return ?

How long does a mating flight usually take? (I had just assumed a matter of a couple hours.)

ok.. just looked that last one up .. 5 to 30 minutes ! ... not much of a honeymoon .. so that implies the rest of the swarm doesn't have much time to wander off, I guess

[Ben Framed]

Agreed lol 😁!  Not much of a honeymoon lol! But remember they have more than one honeymoon as I have learned here at beemaster. They make multiple mating flights.


I really doubt that they left during her mating flight. You ask what would be the case (if they did)  and I answered the best of my ability with my assumption in such a (hypothetical case). My answer was not written in stone but an honest effort to answer based on instinct of my limited experience with a hypothetical answer.

Phillip

[animal]

yes, thanks !
I was confused and you helped a lot

[Ben Framed]

Thanks animal. Man I hope so. I dont wish to lead anyone wrong.

Phillip

[The15thMember]

When I peeked in this morning to check on the feeder situation,I discovered they had  absconded. 
All that remains is a little orphan beard outside the hive. There were about 8 dead bees on the hive floor.

They had only made a small piece of comb on one frame in all the time they were here (14 days).

Conclusion - it was a weak swarm with a weak queen.

Sorry to hear that, Michelle!    Seems like they might have been more trouble than they were worth though.  There isn't by chance a queen in that beard on the outside of the hive?  If there was a queen in that cluster and a queen inside, it would explain why they didn't go in. 

[Michelle]

It could be that the virgin caged queen was left caged a little too long and the bees simply gave up and went back home.

Here's a summary of events -
Day 1 - Feral Swarm from unknown location showed up at swarm trap and moved in. No intervention.
Day 11 -  We took down the trap after 10 days. Put the queen in a clip and moved swarm trap frames to hive below swarm tree. Noticed lots of wax crumbs on floor of swarm trap. Very little comb built.
Day 12 - Took queen out of clip. 3/4 of bees inside. 1/4 of bees bearded outside of hive below entrance.
Day 13 - Queen and bees inside absconded. Small beard outside remains - no queen with that group. I'll double check

The queen was only clipped overnight and was free the remaining time. I really don't think we did anything out of the ordinary to discourage their staying, unless my curious kids' presence observing them was subtly threatening.

[The15thMember]

I really don't think we did anything out of the ordinary to discourage their staying, unless my curious kids' presence observing them was subtly threatening.

I sincerely doubt it.  It sounds to me, since it's not swarm season where you live, that they were an abscond already or a very late weak swarm with a virgin.  Whatever problems they were having weren't caused by you and your children, the bees brought their problems with them, in all likelihood.  As I said, it may be for the best.  Better to catch a big strong swarm and start your beekeeping journey that way, rather than with bees who are struggling.     

[Michelle]

Thanks for the encouragement. In the meantime, I'll keep reading and listening on Beemaster and dream about my next swarm next year.

[Kathyp]

eh, some hives are just swarmy, and I found this more true with smaller after swarms.  But hey, you learned some stuff, so it's all good.  You may get another this year. 

[animal]

Thanks for the encouragement. In the meantime, I'll keep reading and listening on Beemaster and dream about my next swarm next year.

Or do a cut-out! 

maybe it's like the "throw'em in the river" version of learning to swim, but there are lots of people on this site to throw lines and boat donuts to ya ..

... this from a proverbial dog paddler...

[Terri Yaki]

All we can do is speculate and wonder. My swarm hive isn't big on building come either but fortunately, I had more comb to give them.

[Ben Framed]

Or do a cut-out! 

maybe it's like the "throw'em in the river" version of learning to swim, but there are lots of people on this site to throw lines and boat donuts to ya ..

... this from a proverbial dog paddler...

Thumbs Up. That was my way of obtaining my first hive.


Michelle;  Looking at your timeline I agree with last few post: Member, Kathy, and Terri. I especially agree with animal about the cutout; but I will say it?s not for everyone and if you choose to go the cutout way. Please do your homework first. It was a very rewarding experience for me but I was glad I did my homework first.

Phillip

[Michelle]

I have no idea what a cut-out is. If you have a link or a thread I can check out, I'm game! I'd rather try something than twiddle my thumbs.