Hello from Macclenny, FL

[Michelle]

I learned what I know from books and online courses with no in-person experiences. We made swarm boxes, hung them, and surprise! some bees came last week. We just installed them into a horizontal Layens hive, but we have so many questions - that's why I'm here. The swarm is a late May North FL swarm. This seems like a super helpful forum. I'm not well-adjusted to forum layouts yet, but eager to take advantage of all the previous interactions here and maybe, one day, be helpful to someone else. 

I'll list a couple issues here in case someone has any insight after reading my intro. If I need to make a separate post, let me know.
1. When we opened the swarm trap, there was a significant pile of wax pieces (not comb pieces) at the bottom of the trap. Surely this isn't normal. After spending 10 days in the swarm box, they only had a small piece of comb to show for it. What would cause this inability to build comb, instead dropping it to the floor? Could the Florida roaches/palmetto bugs be disturbing them (saw two in the trap)?
2. When installing the bees into the hive, we did find the queen, captured her in a clip, and placed her in the hive. In the process of relocating from the tree right down to the hive, the colony swarmed at least 3 times, trying to settle in the new hive. Is this normal or does it indicate a problem?

I have concluded as a newbie that this is a weak, late swarm and may not make it. But they might surprise me in their resiliency.

[The15thMember]

Welcome to Beemaster, Michelle!    Don't worry to much about the forum organization.  Just post whatever you'd like where you think it would be best, and if something isn't to our liking, either myself or another moderator will move it and leave a link to the new location.  No harm, no foul. 

1. When we opened the swarm trap, there was a significant pile of wax pieces (not comb pieces) at the bottom of the trap. Surely this isn't normal. After spending 10 days in the swarm box, they only had a small piece of comb to show for it. What would cause this inability to build comb, instead dropping it to the floor? Could the Florida roaches/palmetto bugs be disturbing them (saw two in the trap)?

Were these wax pieces scales directly from the bees' wax glands?  Did you have any comb in the trap?  A swarm that has bees producing wax should be able to make comb.  But if the swarm sat camped out for a while and the bees were running low on honey in their crops by the time they finally chose your trap, they may have just not had enough energy and wax to build any more than the small comb they made.  We have cockroaches and wood roaches here in NC, and I will often see them in underpopulated areas of a hive or between inner and outer covers, but they've never done any damage I'm aware of. 

2. When installing the bees into the hive, we did find the queen, captured her in a clip, and placed her in the hive. In the process of relocating from the tree right down to the hive, the colony swarmed at least 3 times, trying to settle in the new hive. Is this normal or does it indicate a problem?

What exactly do you mean by "swarmed"?  Did you have the queen in a clip in the hive, and the bees returned up to the tree several times?  Or did the bees exit the hive and return again without landing anywhere since the queen wasn't with them? 

[Ben Framed]

Welcome Michelle!

[Terri Yaki]

Welcome, Michelle and good luck with your bees. Free bees are the best bees.

[Kathyp]

It may be that this is a secondary swarm.  Sometimes a hive will swarm multiple times and the late swarms often have virgin queens in them.  That you found a queen argues against her being a virgin because they are very hard to spot, but there may have been another queen where the swarm had originally landed, or they are just going back because of the queen scent.  Sometimes it takes them a while to settle and if the collection site is close to the landing site, they might not settle for a bit.

Were they starting to build comb in the tree?  If so, that will attract them back to the spot. It would also explain the wax bits you found.  If they were already building elsewhere, they were producing wax for that hive.
Did you try feeding them in the new box?  This will often help anchor them in the hive box.  I don't know what your flow is like where you are.

Welcome to beemaster.  Poke around.  Use the search feature.  Jump in!    

[Michelle]

Were these wax pieces scales directly from the bees' wax glands?  Did you have any comb in the trap?  A swarm that has bees producing wax should be able to make comb.  But if the swarm sat camped out for a while and the bees were running low on honey in their crops by the time they finally chose your trap, they may have just not had enough energy and wax to build any more than the small comb they made.

Yes, it was the wax scales, like a bunch of clean wax crumbs on the floor. They only built about a 3x2 inch piece of comb in the swarm trap after 10 days of living there. I don't have a feeder yet, but could try to cobble one together with an extra frame. Maybe that should be my priority today. Our sunflowers are just starting to bloom so hopefully that'll help.

The swarm is 12+ days old (from when they showed up on our property). I'm debating whether I should release the queen today or tomorrow from her clip. With so little comb, I don't know how the next gen will make it. 

[Bill Murray]

Michelle I sent you a pm

[Michelle]

What exactly do you mean by "swarmed"?  Did you have the queen in a clip in the hive, and the bees returned up to the tree several times?  Or did the bees exit the hive and return again without landing anywhere since the queen wasn't with them?

We placed the hive right below the tree their trap was hanging. It didn't take long for the small beard on the tree to leave to find their queen, but in the process of trying to rehome the colony (all while the queen was clipped), the ones already in the hive left the hive, flew around erratically, then slowly settled back into the hive. They did this 3 times. This morning, they're all in there except a small beard under the hive entrance (as if they still don't smell the queen). I scooped them into the top of the hive where the queen is. I suppose they were just confused and disturbed from the sudden eviction. No one got stung so they weren't too upset with us. One of my teens found and clipped the queen without equipment (inspired by Texas Bee Works, haha). 

Just so much to learn and observe. Thank you for answering my questions! I plan to get connected with a local bee group ASAP. I think BeeMaster2 runs it, so I should be in very capable hands

[The15thMember]

I don't have a feeder yet, but could try to cobble one together with an extra frame. Maybe that should be my priority today.

I'd normally recommend feeding 1:1 syrup with a ball jar over the inner cover, but that's not a setup that will work with a Layens hive.  We do have a regular member who uses Layens hives, so maybe he'll chime in. 

The swarm is 12+ days old (from when they showed up on our property). I'm debating whether I should release the queen today or tomorrow from her clip. With so little comb, I don't know how the next gen will make it. 

I don't usually cage a queen when I catch a swarm, so I can't speak to that either unfortunately.  If you feed them though, I'd probably release her, since that will help them get started on normal colony operations as fast as possible. 

Thank you for answering my questions! I plan to get connected with a local bee group ASAP. I think BeeMaster2 runs it, so I should be in very capable hands

Most certainly!    Please feel free to keep us updated on the situation, and keep asking any questions that may arise.  It's not only a opportunity for you to learn, but our other members as well. 

[Kathyp]

If you have a good flow then after 12 days you probably don't need to feed.  I only do it for the 1st couple of days with a new swarm as long as there's stuff blooming.

12 days is a long time to keep a queen caged.  Are you sure it's a mated queen? 

Perhaps you got some good private advice.

[Michelle]

12 days is a long time to keep a queen caged.  Are you sure it's a mated queen?

Sorry, let me clarify. The swarm arrived 12 days ago in a swarm trap. I left them alone for 11 days and moved them yesterday into their stationary hive below the trap. Only then (yesterday) did I put the queen in the clip to make sure all the lone foragers came back to the new hive and she didn't leave prematurely. I let her go this morning and they've stayed put so far.

As far as whether she is mated, it was a feral swarm so I don't know.

I had a great conversation with Bill who lives near me (Thank you, Bill Murray!). He gave me some great advice and homework. I'm working on a feeder right now. We do have some stuff coming into bloom but the main honeyflow, apparently, in our area of NeFL is basically over.

Hoping the best for this late swarm. Learning what I can while I have them.

The dropped wax scales is still a mystery....

[Kathyp]

That makes more sense   

Good luck with them.  Sounds like you are off to a good start and it's all a learning experience anyway!

[BeeMaster2]

Hello Michelle,
Welcome to Beemaster.
Swarms are wax producing machines. Once caught a swarm that was on the side of a commercial building for several days. They had balls of wax on their abdomen and on a paper plate that I used to move them. The wax you found, did it look like comb or just balls of wax?
Jim Altmiller

[Michelle]

Hello!

The wax you found, did it look like comb or just balls of wax?

It was little balls of wax. The sight of it is like coarse salt. And it was just piled up on the floor of the swarm trap. They were indeed producing wax but not building comb with it; just dropping it on the floor.

Do you know why they would do that?

[animal]

Do you know why they would do that?

they cant keep a secretion, nor mind their own beeswax ?

sorry, couldn't help it ... it's a disease

[Michelle]

they cant keep a secretion, nor mind their own beeswax ?

[animal]

I know little to nothing about this stuff, but now feel guilty so I'll try to help anyway ...

Were the interior surfaces of the swarm trap primed with beeswax?

And especially if the interior wasn't coated with beeswax ... high humidity/moisture in the box ... that might hydrate the wood and make it harder for them to get the wax to adhere?  ..and thus increasing waste wax

and ... welcome to Beemaster !
and glad to see you have a sense of humor for dad jokes

[Ben Framed]

Hello!

The wax you found, did it look like comb or just balls of wax?

It was little balls of wax. The sight of it is like coarse salt. And it was just piled up on the floor of the swarm trap. They were indeed producing wax but not building comb with it; just dropping it on the floor.

Do you know why they would do that?

I wouldn?t think the following would be the problem since the bees have been in your swarm trap only 12 days. But in the past when I noticed what you are describing, was a SHB indication. It seems just before a hive is slimed by SHB larva I will see this on the bottom board and just outside the hive on the ground. I don?t think this is your problem thought. So as animal. I don?t know either. 🤷🏻‍♂️ 😁

[The15thMember]

I know little to nothing about this stuff, but now feel guilty so I'll try to help anyway ...

Were the interior surfaces of the swarm trap primed with beeswax?

And especially if the interior wasn't coated with beeswax ... high humidity/moisture in the box ... that might hydrate the wood and make it harder for them to get the wax to adhere?  ..and thus increasing waste wax

Except the overwhelming majority of the wax would be built attached to other wax, not to wood, and they did manage to build a small piece attached to a frame, so that doesn't seem likely to me.  On the other hand, I have no better explanation.     

[Michelle]

Thanks, y'all, for trying to troubleshoot this with me. All my equipment is brand spankin' new, so for now, I'll enjoy the honeymoon period of having an absence of pest issues. If only the bees could figure out how to make the hive homey for themselves. I still have a small remnant outside of the entrance bearding who can't seem to smell the queen inside. I've scooped some of them in but they still gather outside. Maybe the smell of the fresh hive is masking the queen's smell yet. My rookie guess for all this is something is wrong with the queen (maybe queen is old or not mated?). Even if this round doesn't make it, hopefully, their short time in residence will help other colonies feel more at home in the future.

All else aside, I'm hooked on this beekeeping stuff and so are two of my kids. Even if this swarm fails, it won't be our last attempt at starting our venture into beekeeping.

Wishin' you all a beautiful summer!