" we are in a moment"

[max2]

"We are in a moment"

This is not my quote - it is a quote by John Miller.
The Miller family has been in bees for 6 generations - so I read.

When John writes, it is worth listening to.

I'm actually surprised that there has been few ( any?) discussions on this Forum about the bigger picture of beekeeping.

The Millers are obviously not backyarders. They depend on bees and what goes on around the bee business for their livelihood.

He mentions that the price for US honey is " soft". looking at the prices published it is obvious that  while the return on honey has not moved much, the costs associated with bees keeps increasing.
The return on Almond Pollination has gone backward and he says that some beekeepers missed out on contracts all together. This is no surprise as the return on Almonds has dropped by a substantial margin and growers have rented fewer hives.
I read that Darren Cox and Joe Romance have sold out - I don't know what the reason was or what the sale price was.
I also read what Charles Linder has to say.
Not a happy chappy.
Hive losses in the US in recent years have reached  53%. This is the highest figure in the world. Nobody loses so many hives.
Imagine a cattle farmer ( or pigs, Poultry...) losing 50% 0f his/her creatures.
Miler wonders what will happen when ( if?) Tropilaelaps arrives.
We know that things will not get better.

With varroa now in Australia we beekeepers also need to change.
Many of the big keepers in the US moved from honey production to pollination.
I'm not sure what the return per hive is for Almond pollination in OZ but it is not $ US 200 . Things will need to change .
Large Mac growers at this stage ( in Qld) are not paying anything for pollination.

Our labour costs are very high. We would find it very difficult to compete with Vietnam, India, Argentina...for honey on price.

So, how do we see beekeeping in the future - In the US and in Australia?

[Kathyp]

I know you intend for this to be about commercial beekeeping, but I think there is a backyard component here.  It's the "save the bees" thing.  Everybody and their brother is keeping bees.  Because it's a feel good save the planet thing, the cost of equipment has gone through the roof.  The cost of bees has gone through the roof.  This started as soon as the Colony Collapse scare started. 

Besides the cost of bees and equipment, there are tons of people who are not educating themselves on best practices.  People refuse to treat for things like varroa because they want to go all natural.  They don't know what they are looking at when they inspect hives.  They don't take advice from seasoned beekeepers because _______ pick your reason.

Another thing to consider is that commercial beekeepers can write off at least part of their losses as a business loss.  Kind of hard to prove how many hives you have lost.  Unless they are getting wild about it, no one is going to call them on it. 

There are losses.  How many are lost is open to debate.  The question of why probably has many components. 

Same thing is happening in the chicken world   

[Ben Framed]

Interesting topic. Good points thus far.. Y'all have my attention.

Phillip

[max2]

The figures I quoted are from the USDA. I don't think that they make them up.

The people I mentioned  are professional beekeepers.

These are not operators who play with luck. Watching on occasions The Canadian Beekeeper i think it is fair to assume that all are using best practice to deal with Varroa and with other bee issues.
The reported losse are actually lower with large beekeepers than with backyarders.
A comparison with chickens is not relevant - chickens have been euthanized in recent times due to the Avian Flu issue .
I can't think of any food/fibre producer which can accept year after year a loss of 52% and stay in business.
For bees living in Europe, the Middle East or New Zealand the Winter mortality is close to 10%.
What has gone wrong? What needs to change? Will Australia follow Europe or the US?
This is a video about the NZ situation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnch8kWj2Hk

[Kathyp]

The figures I quoted are from the USDA. I don't think that they make them up.

They depend on what is reported to them.  They do not go out and count hives.

The people I mentioned  are professional beekeepers

And as professionals, they can take tax write-offs for losses.  I am sure most are honest, but being able to reduce your tax burden is an enticement to pad the numbers. 

The rest of it was you missing my point.  It is the backyard beekeepers who do not use best practices and can spread disease and mites. 
The chicken reference was to so many people becoming backyard chicken keepers and doing the same as some backyard beekeepers.

What has gone wrong probably has multiple answers, and among those multiple answers are perhaps some of the things I pointed out.  If I was not clear in some way, do let me know.

[beesnweeds]

Hive losses in the US in recent years have reached  53%. This is the highest figure in the world. Nobody loses so many hives.

How do they come up with these numbers?  The defunct BIP?  Take a look at Canadas loses.  53% loses? Then how does Wilbanks, Rossman, and so many others have packages and nucs coming out of their ears every spring?  They're ready to supply Canada if it ever happens.  This year some sellers had more than they could sell.  I have yet to hear anyone having trouble getting bees even as late as June.  Every time I turn on my computer, I get hit with tons of ads and emails trying to sell me nucs and queens.  No shortage there.

And as professionals, they can take tax write-offs for losses.  I am sure most are honest, but being able to reduce your tax burden is an enticement to pad the numbers. 

Agree, and not only that but look at what's going on in Vermont.  The Vermont Dept of Ag pours a lot of money into the dairy and maple industry but very little into beekeeping.  So, when they reported all is well in the beekeeping industry this year more than a few noses got bent out of shape.  Beekeepers in Vermont reported very high loses and want in on the tax money.  Can't blame them, I guess.

[max2]

Are you saying that the reports are not a true reflection of the situation because large beekeepers enjoy tax benefits?
Here is the report: https://usda.library.cornell.edu/concern/publications/rn301137d?locale=en

Would it be worthwhile  for members of this forum to declare the number of hive losses and the reasons ( if known) so we can learn from them?
Are you going to kick this off? Kath? Anybody?
Or is all OK in the world of bees?

[Kathyp]

Are you saying that the reports are not a true reflection of the situation because large beekeepers enjoy tax benefits?
Here is the report: https://usda.library.cornell.edu/concern/publications/rn301137d?locale=en

Would it be worthwhile  for members of this forum to declare the number of hive losses and the reasons ( if known) so we can learn from them?
Are you going to kick this off? Kath? Anybody?
Or is all OK in the world of bees?

I am just putting forward some ideas.  We know that other industries and events lead to padded tax claims.  I don't know why beekeeping would be different.
Unless someone actually had eyes on all those lost hives, it is reasonable to view the numbers with at least a little skepticism. 

Here is the survey from Oregon State University
https://pnwhoneybeesurvey.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Or-state-report-2024-Losses-.pdf

[beesnweeds]

"A moment in the past"

https://www.beelistener.co.uk/diseases/the-biggest-beekeeping-myth-busted-by-bailey/

[Ben Framed]

Thanks for posting the link Beesnweeds. It was very interesting to me .

Phillip

[Bill Murray]

Thanks Beesnweeds.

the main points I get from this. QUOTE
Everyone likes a scapegoat when one?s management might be the cause of a problem.

AND

but one thing for sure is that we live in an era when there is so much research-based evidence out there that we cannot claim ignorance when faced with the responsibility for the welfare of livestock.