Peak population for honey flow?

Started by Bob Wilson, September 20, 2024, 11:34:11 PM

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Bob Wilson

I was listening to a Bob Bonnie video, and he said that if a colony "peaks in population" before the honey flow starts, it will most likely swarm.
I know swarming can often be avoided by equalizing our colonies and pulling nucs, thereby knocking back the population and timing the size of the colony to coincide with the flow. As TheHoneyPump says...priming the pump.
1. What exactly is peak population? How large?
2. Can it be ignored if there is always ample room/boxes alleviating congestion?
3. It colonies are given lots of room, is there a time when, regardless of space, they will consider themselves too large and swarm anyway?

The15thMember

Interesting questions.  I don't really know the answers, but I'm just going to kind of speculate out loud.   

Quote from: Bob Wilson on September 20, 2024, 11:34:11 PM
1. What exactly is peak population? How large?
I would think this varies by colony and would depend on genetics, how big the colony was coming off winter, if they themselves were a swarm the previous year, etc. 

Quote from: Bob Wilson on September 20, 2024, 11:34:11 PM
2. Can it be ignored if there is always ample room/boxes alleviating congestion?
My guess is potentially, but only if that room is strategically placed.  The bees have to have the congestion in the brood nest alleviated sufficiently so that swarming triggers (not enough empty cells for the queen to lay in, physically crowded conditions on combs amongst the adult bees, etc.) don't develop.  Just adding boxes on top wouldn't be enough.  I would also guess though that some colonies would still swarm anyway, with less regard to these triggers. 

Quote from: Bob Wilson on September 20, 2024, 11:34:11 PM
3. It colonies are given lots of room, is there a time when, regardless of space, they will consider themselves too large and swarm anyway?
The biggest question here is, are all the triggers for swarm prep congestion related?  If they are, then theoretically, providing properly timed and positioned space should prevent swarming.  If not, then this sort of situation, where a colony reaches "critical mass" so to speak, could happen. 

That's what I'm thinking, but I don't know if it's correct or not.  :grin: 
I come from under the hill, and under the hills and over the hills my paths led.  And through the air, I am she that walks unseen.
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BeeMaster2

Bob,
Just adding boxes won?t help but checkerboarding the honey supers will. Adding a couple of empty frames in the middle of the brood will also help.
Jim Altmiller
Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin

Bill Murray

Just my opinion. Peak population and swarming. I work real hard on trying to keep my bees at home . And this is what ive found to work MOST OF THE TIME. First swarming during swarm season is the way bees propagate. this is mainly caused by 2 things broodnest congestion, and or the queen not producing enough pheromone, age of queen. Just adding boxes during this time will not keep your bees home. To keep them home you relieve the congestion and/or keep young queens in your boxes. Swarming is a process and it starts approximately 12-14 days before it happens, this is why starting about mid January Im in my boxes every 10 days until the flow starts in march. If you get in the box and its plugged out with brood and pollen remove 3 or 4 frames and replace with 3 drawn frames. put these frames you just removed above on a double screen bottom board and let them raise a new queen. Also I have found that starting on my first spring inspection I may need to reverse the brood boxes, a lot of times the queen wont move down into the bottom and they swarm with top full of brood and plenty of room downstairs.
As you saw I said most of the time this works. Sometimes its just nature working against you, or it might be your bees, some bees store nectar raise minimal brood and swarm, swarm, swarm. cull these queens and replace with ones that build up and make you honey.

Quote3. It colonies are given lots of room, is there a time when, regardless of space, they will consider themselves too large and swarm anyway?

Yes. once you get past the propagation "swarm season" and are into the nectar flow, the minute they run out of room to store nectar, or the brood box is back-filled with no room to lay that colony has hit critical mass. And they are gone.