Glass Top Feeder

Romahawk · October 19, 2006, 05:00:15 PM

If I were to install a gallon glass jar above the inner cover as a feeder would it survive freezing temperatures or would it have to be removed when the temperature dropped down into the high 20's or lower 30 degree range? I have one hive that is a bit light and freezing weather is fast closing in on us here in Upstate NY....

Kathyp · October 19, 2006, 05:13:30 PM

boy, i don't think i'd use glass when it freezing. you could use canning jars. they'd probably hold up.

thing is, the syrup will freeze. there may be no point in leaving syrup on in those conditions anyway. you can always pop the feeder back on if the daytime temps come up.

ian michael davison · October 19, 2006, 07:09:01 PM

Hi all

When you are using contact feeders changes in temperature can cause the vacum in the jar to fail this causes the feeder to flood all over the bees. Result frozen wet bees.

Feeding syrup late in cold weather does not give the bees a chance to process the syrup(invert it) or cap it, this can also lead to fermenting stores and dysentry.

If you have to feed late consider some of the inverted syrups sold by suppliers and candy is also a good bet you can feed that all through the Winter.

Hope that helps
Regards Ian

Robo · October 19, 2006, 07:27:41 PM

Sugar syrup has a lower freezing point than water, and with a little insulation around it I have not had a problem with it freezing. However, Ian is right about dysentery. I would recommend hard candy as a backup.
Here is what I do -> http://robo.hydroville.com/v12/content/view/23/2/

Or you can just pour sugar around the inner cover hole. This is the only way my dad use to feed. The only disadvantage is that it must warm up enough for the bees to break cluster to get to, were the block right over the hole lets the cluster move right up and into the block. Pouring sugar around the hole is much easier and quicker, especially when your feeding a lot of hives.

ian michael davison · October 19, 2006, 07:40:40 PM

Hi all

Robo: It's not so much it freezing but if the air pocket above the syrup warms and then cools, it expands and contracts acting like a pump and syrup is lost out the bottom.

Obviously the insulation you mention can also reduce these temperature changes and it's a good idea in early Spring.

Regards Ian

Romahawk · October 19, 2006, 07:42:09 PM

Thanks for the replies. I am off to the market to buy some sugar and try out Robo's recipe.. It kind of caught me by surprise because several weeks ago it seemed like it was a bit heavier than it is now and they were working goldenrod and asters like crazy.

Robo · October 19, 2006, 07:52:34 PM

Quote from: ian michael davisonHi all

Robo: It's not so much it freezing but if the air pocket above the syrup warms and the cools it expands and contracts acting like a pump and syrup is lost out the bottom.

Yup, your right. I understand the principle, and that is why you should never use plastic jugs. The contractions/pumping is much greater with the flimsy plastic. I hastly read the first post and took it as freezing syrup and not freezing weather

I've never had the pumping action cause an issue with glass thou, whatever was pumped out the bees were able to consume. I have had it happen with plastic pail feeders though.

Romahawk · October 19, 2006, 07:53:54 PM

Robo I was looking at your sugar board which I think I will construct and give a try with the sugar candy. Does that go right over the frames in place of the inner cover? Does it need a hole in the center like an inner cover or is it just a solid sheet of sugar candy?

Robo · October 19, 2006, 08:10:11 PM

It goes in place of the inner cover, and right over the frames. I don't bother with the PVC pipe or Luan anymore. Just an outer box and some 1/4" or 1/2" hardware cloth on the bottom. The screen keeps the hunks of sugar from falling onto the frames if it cracks and breaks. Without the Luan, you can easily see when they have eaten thru the block. I usually just put a baten of insulation above it in an empty medium (or in my case a vent box). Checking on them without distrubing them is easily done by looking in the entrance hole with a flashklight, and/or just lifting up the insulation. In the spring I just put them in some garbage bags to keep the ants away and store them in the shed. In the fall I just top them off with some more sugar candy.

Kathyp · October 19, 2006, 10:11:39 PM

do you have a problem with the candy sweating or molding? it is so wet here, i would worry about extra moisture.

Robo · October 19, 2006, 10:22:44 PM

Quote from: kathypdo you have a problem with the candy sweating or molding? it is so wet here, i would worry about extra moisture.

Nope, in fact that is why I use the hard candy instead of syrup. When using syrup, I had a higher rate of dysentery. Now with the hard candy I can't remember a hive getting dysentery. Between the top entrance and the hard candy absorbing moisture, I no longer have any signs of condensation or molding. The moisture softens the candy so the bees can consume it, and it no longer condenses on the inner cover (and worst case dripping into the cluster). That is with the sugar board instead of the inner cover.

When I just place the candy on the inner cover, I think the bees use the water from the condensation to soften the candy block. Even with the inner cover, I still use a top entrance in the winter.

Finsky · October 20, 2006, 12:12:10 AM

Quote from: RoboPouring sugar around the hole is much easier and quicker, especially when your feeding a lot of hives.

I do this:

* I have allways hives which have extra unoccupied capped frames inside hive and I take them and I give to empty hive.

* There are crystallized frames in my frame store and I may take these

* I pour syrup direct into combs at least 10 lbs. Then I give extra box under the wintering box and bees move syrup upstairs.

The best is of course the first. Pouring syrup directly into combs is fire case.

tereads · October 21, 2006, 03:51:37 PM

This is what I learned from my bee mentor and I'll do it this winter (my first) in upstate New York (horticultural zone 4-5):
Use a one gallon plastic pail feeder to feed heavy syrup directly over the frames and an empty hive body and pack hay or straw around the pail feeder then cover with the inner cover and outer cover. He leaves this on all winter as insulation even after he's stopped feeding.

Robo · October 21, 2006, 09:49:09 PM

Leaving the hay on all winter is a good idea, it helps keep the moisture/condesation off the bees, the only drawback is it tends to make a mess with the small pieces and dust that fall thru the hive. I even tried window screen on top of the frames and it was still a pain. I have since switch to batens of insulation which does not produce the dust as with hay.

I have never had good luck with plastic feeders though. As discribed above, as the temperature fluctuates it pumps the syrup out of the feeder. If the bees aren't up top and consuming it, it runs down on them and survival is then questionable. I also see a higher rate of dysentery when feeding syrup in the winter.

Good luck...and keep us posted.