Vinegar in syrup

[Cindi]

I have been reading in the forum about beekeepers putting vinegar in their s.s.  Why is this done?  I have taken a couple of courses, level 1 and 2 beekeeping, and many seminars and have never heard of vinegar in sugar.  Curious about this.  I live near Vancouver in British Columbia, pretty mild winters, some freezing weather now and then.

[Finsky]

To handle with acip winter sugar is old story. Maarec (consortion of universities) recommend vinegar today into sugarsyrup.

But I have kept bees 45 years and I have not used vinegar. I do not know any in Finland who use that method. My bees live with winter sugar 9 months per year. 

[Dick Allen]

Adding a lot of those concoctions seems to make the beekeeper feel better.  Cream of tartar is also recommended by some beekeepers and in some texts as an aid for helping bees with their sugar syrup or candy.

Diana Sammataro gives a couple of fondant recipes calling for cream of tartar in her ‘The Beekeeper’s Handbook’ (p. 59). Interestingly, she writes  earlier in the same book (p. 56) about adding cream of tartar to syrup saying that there is some concern it may be detrimental to bees and is not recommended.

In the book ‘Honey Bee Pathology’ Leslie Bailey wrote that there was more toxicity to bees fed sugar syrup containing cream or tartar or vinegar  when compared to plain sugar syrup (p. 78, 1st ed.).  Those results were probably derived from controlled studies, and the amount of toxicity was not given, so it may be only an incremental increase likely not noticed by beekeepers.  I’m with Finsky, I don’t put that stuff in with the syrup and bees seem to do ok.  In my opinion, use vinegar (or other additiives) judiciously or not at all.

[Finsky]

Here is new Australian Bee Feedin Manual Fatty bees, skinny bees.  150 paged modern knowledge.
http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/05-054.pdf

I  did not find vinegar recommedation in sugar feeding  Page 29.

[Rich V]

I have heard that it was done to help keep the syrup from mold. Never tryed it.

[Cindi]

To handle with acip winter sugar is old story. Maarec (consortion of universities) recommend vinegar today into sugarsyrup.

But I have kept bees 45 years and I have not used vinegar. I do not know any in Finland who use that method. My bees live with winter sugar 9 months per year. 

Thanks for the response.  I am a little confused about why you say your bees live with winter sugar 9 months per year.  Do you have an intensely short nectarflow and honeyflow that occurs where you live?  Do the bees not store enough honey for their own use.  I would think that it would be very expensive to feed bees sugar all year.

Cindi

[Finsky]

Thanks for the response.  I am a little confused about why you say your bees live with winter sugar 9 months per year.  Do you have an intensely short nectarflow and honeyflow that occurs where you live?  Do the bees not store enough honey for their own use.  I would think that it would be very expensive to feed bees sugar all year.

Cindi

Bees gather here honey in June and July.  120 lbs per hive is good normal. This summer many beekeeprs got over 200 lbs pehive.

We use to take all hone away and give sugar for winter. Sugar is 0,5 â,¬/lbs but honey is in shops 4 â,¬/lbs.

We give sugar 40 lbs per hive.

Bees get not honey from nature enough from August to May.
.

[Cindi]

Thanks for the response.  I am a little confused about why you say your bees live with winter sugar 9 months per year.  Do you have an intensely short nectarflow and honeyflow that occurs where you live?  Do the bees not store enough honey for their own use.  I would think that it would be very expensive to feed bees sugar all year.

Cindi

Bees gather here honey in June and July.  120 lbs per hive is good normal. This summer many beekeeprs got over 200 lbs pehive.

We use to take all hone away and give sugar for winter. Sugar is 0,5 â,¬/lbs but honey is in shops 4 â,¬/lbs.

We give sugar 40 lbs per hive.

Bees get not honey from nature enough from August to May.
.
I am new to the forum, haven't quite figured out how to use it well, but I love the fact that we can converse and ask questions of seasoned beekeepers.  I see that you have many,many posts.  I am new to beekeeping, this being my second year.  I began in april 2005 with 4 (2 pound) packages of bees, lost 1 over that winter, brought these 3 colonies through winter fast and furious and were very strong colonies.  Purchased 4 more packages  (2 pounds) and split the strong colonies from the previous year, and caught an enormous swarm from a neighbouring community.  I ended up with 11 colonies.  By the end of summer, I ended up with 5 colonies.  Which is what I presently have.  I had a terrible problem with the varroa mite.  It devastated a few of my colonies before I even realized that there was a problem.  So many lessons learned.  I will not have any varroa problems this upcoming year I am hoping.  I know the signs of the mite infestation and know how to deal with them.  This summer I saw so many bees crawling around on the ground with frayed wings, but due to inexperience, I thought that they were simply old bees that had their wings worn out from flying.  This was a very distressing year with the loss of so many bees.  Keeping my bees as healthy as I possibly can was my entire target of beekeeping.  Getting honey from these girls was not my greatest intention.  I just wanted to keep bees because I love them so much.  Honey was a bonus.  I did get about 200 pounds of honey all totaled at the end of summer, but that certainly does not even come close to 120 pounds per hive, which I assume is pretty normal.  it was more like 30.  Maybe next year I will have a greater honey harvest.  I have spent much time researching bee plants (I live on 5 acres), and last year planted bee plants by the hundreds.  I gathered seed from these plants and will be sowing them this spring, and along with all my fruit and vegetables (which I allow to flower as well), there should be an enormous honeyflow for the girls.  I have great aspriations for next year, along with healthy bees and lots of nectar and pollen.  Our weather here is so mild that the bees can gather pollen (starting probably in Feb) and nectars beginning around April/May, onwards right through until the end of October.  So many of the plants that I grow continue to bear both pollen and nectar long into the late fall.  Come the end of October, things are mostly done.  To end, I think that I am going to certainly feed the bees sugar to ensure they have plenty of food.  I did leave quite a bit of honey with them, but they say for this area they need 60 pounds of honey to last the winter, but I don't think that they have that much for sure, so I have gone into the sites about feeding sugar and some suggestions to make the sugar feeders on top of the innner cover, and will be doing so.  An old beekeeper that is a member of my bee club always puts lots of sugar on the top of his inner cover, but when he showed me it looked like he just had a hole in the inner cover, with newspaper covering this hole lightly and the bees just came up whenever they chose to eat.  Good talking to you and all the advice that you and so many others so freely give.  As an aside, I actually couldn't imagine giving vinegar to bees, and I don't think that I would ever do that.  Maybe some believe it is good, but vinegar is so acidy and icky.  Cindi

[Finsky]

 

I had a terrible problem with the varroa mite. 

It is easy when you learn. If your hives have brood over winter, then it is laborous job.

Me too lost some hives when it developed Apistan resistant mite population in my yard 5 years ago.  I have had mites 20 years.

I started at the age of 15. It took me 5 years before I start to get good yields. The bees were grazy in those days before I got Caucasian queens.

this area they need 60 pounds of honey to last the winter,

It is much as yield. They managae with sugar as well.

An old beekeeper that is a member of my bee club always puts lots of sugar on the top of his inner cover,

I do not understand  that method because it is so easy to feed syrup and bees pack it into combs. So act bees in nature. They gather nectar and store it under caps.

[Brian D. Bray]

The reason for putting vinegar in syrup, according to my mentor, is to make it more on the same acidic level as natural nectar.  A little bit goes a long ways--no more than 1 tsp per gallon.  Unfortunately we Americans seem to be of a mind that if a little is good, more is better, which is not true.  One post in the forum cited 2 tbsp per gallon which is 4 times more than needed. 
I've always used 1 tsp to the gallon as my mentor taught me and have had no ill effects that I could notice and the bees have always seem to take it more readily than syrup without it.
How much of a difference is a day in the life of a honey bee, when vinegar is used?  I've seen foragers fly their wings to tatters in a few days during a strong flow.  I believe the shortened mortaility rate is too insignificant to matter.