Beehives Facing Buildings

[ndvan]

I am an extreme newbee -- do not have a hive at all and I am in a beginner's class.  I live in a city.  I have posted about beehive placement in city lots.  Michael Bush, who has been very helpful,  suggested setting hives facing a building, which would fit my situation very well.  It would push bees up and help me deal with space limitations. 

I have run this idea by more experience beeks in my class, and they look at me like this is nuts.  One person suggested that this approach might make for unhappy bees.  I don't really understand why that would be true.  Mr. Bush has done this, and he says it works fine.  The people I am talking to have never tried it, but are shooting this idea down based on their experience (and some of them have much experience keeping bees).

Has anybody else given this a try?  Does setting a hive facing a building or fence, less than 12 inches from the building or fence really pose a problem or make for unhappy hives?

I do not want to put Mr. Bush on the spot, and would like any more input he has.  I would like any more input that anybody has.

Thanks, ndvan

[Michael Bush]

How many of the people criticizing the idea have tried it?

[ndvan]

None.  That's why I did this post. 

I asked the people what the problem would be.  Most were vague in their responses.  One person said that he thought that it would irritate the bees in that it would slow down their flight speed when exiting and entering the hive.  To me, that did not seem to be a real problem.  It seemed to me that bees in nature live in hollow trees, where doging branches would be a concern that would slow down the bees. 

Also, does it get the bees irritated to work the hives that are set up this way?

I also thought about sunshine on the hive opening, but the real issue, it seems to me, ought to be how warm the hive gets.  That should be increased by the sun shining on the back of the hive as well as the front. 

Do you (or anybody else) have any ideas on this. 

In your ACTUAL experience, has this caused the hives to be any less productive (either brood or honey), more prone to swarm, etc. than if the hives were faced away from a building/fence?

Thanks again for your input.

ndvan

[Scadsobees]

I think sunshine in the entrance will get them going sooner.  I don't know if that translates into more honey, though.

I agree that facing the beehive toward a building is a good idea (provided it doesn't have a door or open window there :) ).  I will say that I haven't tried it, but knowing how my hives work, I would give them more than 1 foot if possible.  My bees go out about 10 feet then straight up, sometimes forming a big swarm right in front of the hive (air traffic control?).  But it is more of a feeling instead of a hard reason.

I don't see a logical reason why it wouldn't work.  I don't think it would make for unhappy bees, they really don't think that way.  Sometimes feral hives are in a house 5 or 6 feet from the entrance hole.  Once they are used to that kind of entrance they'd probably do just fine.

Give it a try, and let us know how it works.  I'm sure there are others who have thought of trying something like that.

[thegolfpsycho]

I think we're making this much more difficult than it needs to be.  Just do it.  Bees aren't that particular.  Have you seen the places they make their homes?  I've had them in observation hives that they had to traverse a 5 foot pvc pipe, then another 2 foot glass tube.  I've kept them in cardboard boxes when I was short equipment. Had colonies that were knocked over by horses or cattle.  They didn't give up, they didn't fly away.  They just reorganized and kept working.  With only a colony or 2, is massive production really an issue?  You'll get more than you can use, and still have some to give away.  With irrigation, plantings for color and varied blooms, my residential colonies consistently outperform the colonies in the outyard.  They'll get some residual warmth from the building too.  Whats to lose?

[Michael Bush]

>I asked the people what the problem would be.  Most were vague in their responses.

Exactly.

> One person said that he thought that it would irritate the bees

They can think that, but it's not true.

> in that it would slow down their flight speed when exiting and entering the hive.

Maybe a little.  Once you've seen productive hives in trees where things are even less convenient, you realize it's trivial.

> To me, that did not seem to be a real problem.  It seemed to me that bees in nature live in hollow trees, where doging branches would be a concern that would slow down the bees.

Exactly.

>Also, does it get the bees irritated to work the hives that are set up this way?

Not at all.  It's easier to avoid irritating them since you can walk every where it's convenient without walking in front of the entrance.  Also you have free access to your ENTIRE yard without worrying about walking in front of the hive, where they are more defensive.  It takes up a lot less of your yard.

>I also thought about sunshine on the hive opening, but the real issue, it seems to me, ought to be how warm the hive gets.

They both have an effect.  A bee standing at the entrance deciding if they are going to fly or not will be more likely when it's warm and sunny.  But all in all it doesn't make that much difference anyway.

>In your ACTUAL experience, has this caused the hives to be any less productive (either brood or honey)

No.

> more prone to swarm, etc.

No.

[ndvan]

That's good enough for me. 

One reason I did this post is that the one person I talked to who was _really_ against this idea is pretty open-minded and generally has a "give it a try" attitude.  On this, he just thought the idea was nuts.  However, I think in this instance it was just something outside his experience.

I'll give it a go and let you know how it works for me.

Thanks for the input.

ndvan

[Brian D. Bray]

Mmost people can't comment on what they haven't experienced, as a consequence they repond negatively.  Generally a negative response is synonomous with ignorance.  Any one who as seen bees come out of a hive and then fly directly upward for 6 to 12 feet would never doubt the bees will do it.  If they've ever seen a hive adapt to a new entrance or some other restriction due to happenstance would not doubt that bees will adapt to their enviornment. 
In cities having a hive a foot or two away from a fence or wall so that the bees must helicopter in is really not that uncommon.

[qa33010]

ndvan

     I have two hives against the wall of my house and one against the shed about ten feet away all are facing a seven foot privacy fence.  I'm in town, smack dab in the middle.  My bees are happy and calm as can be.  They have no worries about flying over the fence if that's where they need to go and will just as happily fly straight up from the entrance sixteen feet to fly over the house if that's where they need to go.  I had been told the same as you.  I decided if there was research done on this then fine.  But if not it is an opinion that they will be mad by putting them in a tight place.  (or it could be clumsy handling or needed requeening or time of year... IMHO) :-D

David

I have looked for research on this but it has not shown anything.

[Horns Pure Honey]

Ive had a hive faced toward a building next to a hive that was in the open only 15 feet away, same breed of bee and from the same company, the one in the open did better than the one facing the building. :)

[Michael Bush]

I've had many hives side by side in identical conditions and some made twice as much honey as the others...

[mick]

Given that the oldest known fossil of a bee in amber is 100 million years old.

This is plenty of time for evolutional behaviour. Bees would have learnt about attacks from predators on their hives. In the wild I have seen heaps of hives of native and introduced bees with a hole the size of your finger for an entrance. Trees, rocks, cracks in walls you name it, all manner of tight spaces. Infact the ones Ive seen in rocks would pretty much replicate those in  close urban environments.

So I deduce that bees dont mind tight spaces for entry/exit of the hive. After all this is all that matters, what goes on inside never changes. Tight spaces are hard to attack and easy to defend, bees would have learnt this over the last 100 million years.

Therefore a hive up close to a shed or wall or fence would be no less atractive than one placed anywhere else. IMO of course.

[Michael Bush]

Here's an interesting story from Jay Smith in Better Queens, illustrating that sometimes the cause of something isn't readily apparent. He was trying to find good breeder queens:

"In Indiana we had an outyard laid out in the form of a triangle as that was the shape of the plot on which we had our bees. During the sweet clover flow one colony produced three supers of honey while the others averaged about two supers. In the fall that colony produced two supers of honey from smartweed and asters while the rest produced a little less than one super. Surely that colony that so far outdistanced the others must have a queen that would make an excellent breeder. I thought I would take a look at her but alas, when I opened the hive, I found it not only had no queen but was fairly lousy with laying workers! Just why then the big yield? This colony was located at the point of the triangle to the west and the fields of nectar lay to the west. It was evident that the bees in returning from the fields-maybe the ones out for their first load-stopped at the first hive they came to and kept it packed with bees." --Jay Smith