sunflowers

[hairbear]

I thought this might be a good day to do some planning for next year since there is 6" of snow outside. I own some farm ground and have already planted 27 acres to yellow sweet clover,also have planted 65 acres to wheat. My plan for after wheat crops are to split the acres and pant tame sunflowers and soybeans. 1st question is how maney hives can I put on the sweet clover?  2nd question is I was reading a book on honey plants by Frank C. Pellett. Under sunflowers he claims wild sunflowers for will produce honey but the " cultivated sunflowers are of little if any valve for honey". Does anyone have any experience with tame sunflowers and witch variety would workbest?

[Cindi]

My experience with sunflowers (helianthus) is limited, but I have planted several varieties that I will write about.  I order many of my annual seeds from Stokes seeds.  In their catalogue they list two specific varieties of sunflower.  One is called pollen free, sterile, seedless and the other of course is the seeded variety,which of course is loaded with pollen.  I do not plant the sterile, as I like to feed the birds, I always leave the sunflowers of all varieties for the birds in the fall.  The black-capped chickadees and Stellar jays are amazing to watch as they hang off the flower heads, eating and eating and eating.  I planted one in particular that I am very fond of, called "Soraya".  Soraya sunflower grows just over 5 feet.  It is about "face" level and is fantastic to stand and watch the bees work.  I also grow the Russian, which grows to about 15 feet tall here.  The bees were particularly fond of the Soraya, it was always covered with bees, all covered with pollen all the time.  The Russian, I honestly cannot tell you, because of the extreme height.  I know the bees gather nectar from sunflowers.  And I do know for a fact that pollen they did gather, and if you are going to harvest pollen from the bees, I would strongly suggest "Soraya".  If you do not have interest in harvesting pollen from the bees, it is awesome for their winter stores of pollen anyways.  The one named "ring of fire" was also an extremely pretty and attractive flower.  I cannot speak for the wild sunflower, I don't even know where to get the seed, probably would be easily obtained with a little research.  This is my experience.  The picture that I have embedded shows Soraya in the background.  Just a small clump, as I wanted to determine if this was a good bee plant or not, next year it will be planted en masse.  Great day.  Cindi

[kensfarm]

I bought 2 50lb bags of "bird" sunflower seeds this spring..  one grey stripped & one black oil.. mixed them together and just planted them w/ an old grain drill..  they came up thick.. the bee's were working them.. so were the bumble's. 

[Cindi]

I bought 2 50lb bags of "bird" sunflower seeds this spring..  one grey stripped & one black oil.. mixed them together and just planted them w/ an old grain drill..  they came up thick.. the bee's were working them.. so were the bumble's. 

Ken, awe, that is good to know.  We have a co-op nearby that sells the black oil and grey striped in bags, like you did.  I think that I will pursue this too, it would be fairly inexpensive to sow out the back for the birds and the bees.  I still do enjoy the hybridized species too, like the one that I got from Stokes, will sow them all.  Great day. Cindi

[hairbear]

....cindi & kensfarm  Thanks for sharing your experinces with me I have never grown sunflowers before but always have alot of wild sunflowers growing ever where you don't want them. In this area farmers usely grow the black oil type. I am looking forward to this summer and I'll see how they do. cindi great looking garden and bee yard.     Thanks again  Hairbear

[Cindi]

hairbear
You will have fields of clover so beautiful, I don't know what yellow clover is.  Wheat sounds cool too.  I don't grow that here either.  Unimaginable how many acres 27 and 65 are.  I think that I have a big place with 5.  I never could wrap my head around how on earth farmers can work such an enormous piece of land.  It must be work beyond what the imagine could fathom.  The bees would be in clover heaven with that much forage.  What do you do with your crops?  I am unfamiliar with the end product of clover, now wheat, that is a given though.  Is the clover mixed with other kind of hay for animal forage or something?  Curious for sure.  Great day, Cindi

[KONASDAD]

Wild sunflowers seeds are often sold under the name Maximillian sunflower. They are often sold bare root on ebay and other catalogue sites. Easy to grow, reaching hight of 6-8ft and will self sow often. They are unlikely to bloom and seed first year unless you use bare root plants. Indigenous throughout much of North America, often seen on roadside ditches, highways and the like. Birds love'm. Cant speek as to bees. Black oil sunflowere seeds found in birdseed mixes provide the most nutrional value to seed eating birds as they are highest in oil. A needed nutrient for wintering birds.

[Finsky]

I raised some Helianthus debilis - plants and I want to se what bees like it. It has tens of flowers open all the time but bees did not pay attention to them.

[hairbear]

cindi, Sweet clover grows about 3' to 4' tall and is kind of stemy plant not to many leaves.  I plant yellow sweet clover so the flowers will be yellow.  The main reason to grow sweet clover besides for the honey is the nitrogen that it produces.  so I am trying to kill two birds with one stone. After it blooms I will plant another crop after it. Probably a short season sorgum. As far as farming goes it is not that hard if you have the right equipment.    Hairbear

[Cindi]

Finsky, absolutely beautiful flower that sunflower debilis.  I looked on the internet to see more about this plant.  I do not know why it is not attractive to bees.  This plant looks somewhat like a yellow echinacea with the cone like centre.  I don't think it is in the echinacea family, but it does indeed resemble echinacea alot, except for the colour.  I have read that the bee like echinacea, but I find that they do not pay much attention to it at my place.  Maybe it is low in nectar/pollen and they have easier and better sources.  You have a very beautiful yard.  I see many interesting things in your picture.  Looks like you have a beautiful grape vine (??) and some red roses(??).  Awesome.

The sunflower debilis appears to be a few different species, two of what I could see are the cucumber-leaf debilis and the beach debilis.  Interesting how plants can have like sub-groups.  Great day. Cindi

[Cindi]

Wild sunflowers seeds are often sold under the name Maximillian sunflower.

Konasdad
OK, ya, I did gro the Maximillan sunflower one year, but the place I grew it in turned out to be inappropriate, it was rather gangly and too big, so I took it out.  That was before I kept bees.  I think now that it was a mistake to have taken the life of this plant.  So..yep, I will get some seed, I will sow it early in my greenhouse, that way, I have had luck with perennials blooming the same year, which like you say, generally you require the bare root to have it bloom same year.  I am in the process of ordering seed now for sowing them in the greenhouse in late January.  I have a furnace and lights in the greenhouse that allow me to get a wonderful jump on the season.  And it is wonderful to go out and work in there with my sister and get some of that humid tropical feeling that is no longer in existence when we open the door and step outside to the cold.  I am a lucky woman, I also have a timer system that generally gives about 12-15 hours of daylight, depending on the need, to the seedlings that I fool into thinking it is summer.  Ha, I have that edge on these plants.  So, yep, I'll get some seed, and maybe order some bare root as well.  I actually didn't realize the black oil seed sunflower was good because of the oil content, but I have learned another wonderful thing today.  Great day.  Cindi

[Cindi]

cindi, Sweet clover grows about 3' to 4' tall and is kind of stemy plant not to many leaves.  I plant yellow sweet clover so the flowers will be yellow.

hairbear, so I presume that you turn under the clover?  I planted some fall rye out the back of my place, but I haven't seen any come up yet, I think the birds got it all, I sowed quite a few bags of it.  Maybe I just haven't looked well enough.  Oh well.  If so, the birds had good feed.  What crop will you plant when you turn under the clover?  It is intereting to hear what people plant in different parts of the country.  Is the yellow clover fragrant?  Always wonder about the scent of different plants.  Great day. Cindi

[KONASDAD]

Another great bee and bird flower(mentioned in prior posts) is anise hyssop(agastache hyssop). Bees of many varities love it. When it goes to seed, golfinches sit on top and eat the seeds. Just like echinacea varities.

[Cindi]

Oh ya, I bet the goldfinches love the seeds of hyssop.  I never thought about that.  I always let them go to seed cause I am too lazy to cut them down before winter.  Glad that I did not, now I will for sure always leave the seed.  There are indeed thousands upon thousands for them to enjoy on these plants.  Awesome!!!  Bird seed provided without intention.  Gotta love it.  The bird that is most prevalent around here right now that is probably having a field day on these plants is the black-capped chickadees, chickadees, and house wrens.  The towhees would be scrounging on the ground as they are groundfeeders, enjoying what the others knock off.  Awesome day. Cindi

[fcderosa]

Beeing a gardener first and beek second I can tell you with confidence - the bees will pick what their favorite is, no book, no forum, or other beek.  They tend to go after one type bloom disregarding the rest.  If for example you have blackberries and monarda (beebalm) blooming at the same time I would put my money on the blackberries while the monarda goes untouched.  I often see more bumblebees than my own honeybees in my garden.  I think often when they state in the gardener's literature "attracts bees"; they aren't saying which type of bees it attracts.  Most people can't tell the difference between a bee and a yellow jacket as well. Your best bet is walk through your neighborhood or property and see what your bees are attracted to.  Write down in a journal the time of bloom as well.  At the end of the season you'll be able to see your bees taste and itinerary - plant accordingly. ;)

[Finsky]

Finsky,.  You have a very beautiful yard. 

Sorry, this is not my yard. It is from internet.  H. debilis originates from beaches of Florida but it thrived well in Finlad summer too. It used water huge quantities.

[Trot]

Cindi,

I think that you and Finsky were talking about fire-weed a while back? If memory serves me right, you mentioned that you pick the seeds and than seed them around your place?
Just today I have found an interesting info about seeding fire-weed! Because in your neck of the woods - you don't really have winter - one must store fireweed seeds in the freezer/fridge so that they will germinate!
I did not know that, but here in Northern Ontario, that is not a problem cause we had more snow this fall than any year on record. (85 inches for October -North Bay!)

I have pasted a link, perhaps it will be of help?

Regards,
Trot

http://www.prairiemoon.com/store/template/product_detail.php?IID=573&SID=50f519e0e642a50bce8cfb37c8334254#

[Finsky]

Just today I have found an interesting info about seeding fire-weed! Because in your neck of the woods - you don't really have winter - one must store fireweed seeds in the freezer/fridge so that they will germinate!

In August, when rains begin here again I saw tremendous measure tiny seed plants on forest harvest ground. They are fireweed seeds, I suppose. So they germinate very soon when they have dropped.  We plough almost every place  where wood is harvested.

Seeds need bare ground because they are so tiny that they are not able to survive under another vegetation.

Area for fireweed

[Cindi]

Cindi,

I think that you and Finsky were talking about fire-weed a while back?
Regards,
Trot

http://www.prairiemoon.com/store/template/product_detail.php?IID=573&SID=50f519e0e642a50bce8cfb37c8334254#

Frank, I am going to start a new post in a different forum that pertains more to "almost beekeeping".  I don't know if I should, but I have comments to you that I would like to make about the fireweed  and I think that they are more pertaining to flower culture than bee culture.  So it may be an OK thing to do to head to another forum.  Great day.  Cindi.

[tig]

HI hairbear,

    In the nothern part of my country, giant sunflowers are cultivate to produce seeds.  There are a lot of beekeepers who take advantage and have set up operations not only for the cultivated variety, also because a lot of the smaller, wild sunflowers are present.  Both cultivated and wild varieties produce a lot of pollen and honey.  The honey from the cultivated variety is a rich, golden color.

     In my area, we have a lot of wild sunflowers which are presently blooming {season is from november to february}.  I have a strong honeyflow now but the color of the honey from the wild sunflower is not as dark as from the giant sunflowers.  It's a lighter gold in color and the taste is excellent.

     By the latter part of january, the colopogonium plant starts to flower and gives off a lot of nectar.  The honey is a very light golden color.  I find most of my customers prefer this kind of honey, specially if it has a little mix of wild sunflower.

     The only drawback is that most farmers consider both plants to be obnoxious weeds and tend to try and eliminate them.  Since i'm in a tropical country, there's no winter to kill them off.  The wild sunflower grows in clumps and easily propagates while the colopogonium is a crawling vine.  As a beepeeker i lament the landclearing of these 2 plants but if I were a farmer i would be cursing the takeover of my cultibate fields lol!