African Bees

[sean]

Was just watching a documentary on National geographic regarding the spread of the afrcian bees from south thru central and now into north america. How has this impacted on the honey indrustry in those areas, are they really more productive than the european bees. i was told that because they were more aggressive they tended to rob more in less favourable times, what is the truth?

[Michael Bush]

It's true that Brazil is exporting more honey now than ever.  Why, is another question.  I don't see how angry, bees that swarm and abscond all the time would be very productive.

[Jerrymac]

I think that is the same "document" that I watched. I think a lot of it was unfounded information. I live in an area that is suppose to have AHBs. I capture feral colonies all the time. I don't find those mean girls.

[Understudy]

AHBs are great honey producers. They just have an attitude problem. Mike is correct when he says they abscond and swarm much more frequently, however there are ways to deal with that. In the wild the AHB nest is not as large as a standard nest. However a hive box that makes for a good home with keep them around and they can get as strong in population as your regular hive. If they have room to grow they won't  swarm. They also use queen excluders to keep her in place. She stays so does the hive. Tends to cut down on absonding.

AHBs tend to attack dark colors and CO2 sources. I have seen where they go into hives with smoke and white overalls and a breathing filter that prevents CO2 emissions and the bees did nothing when they removed the frames. Also there has been a lot of continued breeding to make a more docile AHB. Because they want the honey but not the agression so the Dr. Frakenstien experiments continue. Soon to followed by the AHB with the Japanese wasp killing bees. Then by the varroa resistant strain. Quick Igor grab me a drone!


IT's ALIIIVVVVEEE.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Zoot]

Here in MD there have only been a couple of documented (by the state) findings of AHB, all in the vicinity of Baltimore harbor where the bees swarmed off foreign freighters. There has been a lot of excitement over them in the media though. The beekeepers around here seem to fall into 2 distinct camps: the ones who fret over it constantly ("Oh Dear..oh dear!!!") and the ones who are basically unconcerned. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, developes over the next few seasons.

[Finsky]

AHBs are great honey producers.

Some writes that they make nothing but swarms and honey not at all.
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=007249

What Michael says it is very tru if you try  to earn living with nasty hives.

40 years ago our usual race was in Finland "Grossbreeded German Black"   bees.  Some think that they were best bees ever seen.  But what they really were.  They gived 20-40 pounds per hive honey.  They swarmed when hive growed big enough.  German black war oricinally intoduced to America but who have seen it last? Many Brittish say that it is the best!

Now I get  4 times more with italians. -  Italian and Italians-  yellow color -  30 years ago I get with Iatalians  80 lbs per hive, then it raised with one stock to 120 lbs per hive an dnow I have 160. It is average yield on 4 years period.

.

[Scott Derrick]

We had a speaker that worked with the Peace Corp at our last association meeting. She taught beekeeping just below brazil in a remote area. She said that all the bees she worked with were africanized with the acception of other species. She taught the villages how to work with the bees and said that she loved working with them and that they produced not only a lot of honey but that is was very good. I am a new beekeeper and don't pretend to know all there is to know about this subject but if they are managing them in South America and exporting loads of honey couldn't we learn to do the same when they reach us?

She also said that by the end her three years in Brazil that she tended the hives without gloves and wore flip flops. These are the same bees that she saw kill a cow that was tied up too close to the hives a couple of years earlier

Scott

[sean]

based on what i have read and seen the sentiment is mostly anti-ahb.  the average age of our farmers is about 60 which is why i think ahbs arent here as yet as. our nation has a habit of importing a lot of stuff from the US (both good and bad). There is currently a drive on to increase the number of farmers concentrating on the young people. I sincerely hope they dont try to sneak in any from the US

[Understudy]

We had a speaker that worked with the Peace Corp at our last association meeting. She taught beekeeping just below brazil in a remote area. She said that all the bees she worked with were africanized with the acception of other species. She taught the villages how to work with the bees and said that she loved working with them and that they produced not only a lot of honey but that is was very good. I am a new beekeeper and don't pretend to know all there is to know about this subject but if they are managing them in South America and exporting loads of honey couldn't we learn to do the same when they reach us?

She also said that by the end her three years in Brazil that she tended the hives without gloves and wore flip flops. These are the same bees that she saw kill a cow that was tied up too close to the hives a couple of years earlier

Scott

Scott,

Do you have any information on the speaker. I would love to have that person at one of our meetings.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[Scott Derrick]

Scott,

Do you have any information on the speaker. I would love to have that person at one of our meetings.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Brendhan,

I'll see what I can do for you. She is about 27 or 28 and just back from what I understand. I'll get back to you.

Scott                                   

[empilolo]

I am slowly getting more info on the African Bee (not africanized bee).

I don't see how angry, bees that swarm and abscond all the time would be very productive. M B

One African beek about aggressiveness of his bees

Aggressive bees are aggressive in foraging and especially during the nectar flow, they will ensure high honey production inside the hive within a short time unlike the less aggressive ones.

of course not all African beeks agree with that statement. But common to African beeks is the statement that a lot depends on how you treat your bees.

But African bees do produce honey. How aggressive are they really ? I have held comb from a cut-out in my hand, bees over both hand and arm, not wearing gloves, and was not stung. Stupid, I know, but the bees were cool and I never gave it a thought.

Breeding for improved strains is just about taking off (sub-Sahara Africa, not including SAR). The African bees have never been domesticated and even in SAR it is a relatively recent enterprise.

[Finsky]

I am slowly getting more info on the African Bee (not africanized bee).

Very interesting to think what is Africa. it's area is 3 times larger than Europea.  Afr. 30 mil. km2  Eur  10,3 mil. m2.

How many stock we have in Europa and how many in Africa?

Very interesting information was that Western Europen bee stock  ( German Black or North Bee) is more relative to African bee than Italian, Carniolan etc.

The African bees have never been domesticated

When we think about domestication of European honey bee, there are 2 big innovation in this issue

1) Movable frame that you may change the queen when ever
2)  insemination that you may control mating and develope rapidly stocks .
......I get my first inseminated queens 20 years ago.


When we read reports from bees in winderness, they swarm and they are agressive, like they ought to keep themselves alive in nature.

In our country queen  rearing was difficult because unselected German Black bees were everywhere and they were quick to mate with all kind of races. When varroa come and killed German Blacks, beekeeping has been much more easier.

[empilolo]

Africa for bee size. Nearest African beek I have been able to find lives about 300 km away from me.

Finsky wrote:

How many stock we have in Europa and how many in Africa?

Not as few as you probably think, although only A.m. scutellata and A.m. adansonii are relevant to sub-Saharan beekeeping today.

According to a recent review of the intraspecific nomenclature of Apis mellifera (Engel, 1999), 10 valid subspecies are recognized in Africa.

Source: http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v86/n4/full/6888420a.html

We are, as yet, Varroa free; maybe we should opt for the bees to be a bit more aggressive rather than.

[Finsky]

I have a little bit Afican blood in my yard. I have Elgon bee crossings and name come from Elgon mountain Kenya. http://www.beesource.com/pov/osterlund/montphoto1.htm

It has something to do with monticola bee?

[Cindi]

What a great journal those men kept going to the mountains in Kenya.  I very much enjoyed the site.  thanks for posting it.  Great day. Cindi

[Kirk-o]

I guess those African bees can be troublesome
krio