Interrupted cut out

Understudy · February 11, 2007, 05:55:09 PM

~~First and foremost. I don't have any pics up yet. I will later. With more to follow.~~

Photos now up look at below post for URL.

I had a request to remove some bees living under a mobile home. Own by a nice retired lady. Mobile home and retired are a common connection in S. Florida.

I am always surprised by bees. These guys had comb hanging down about 2 feet long. In a small area under the corner of the trailer. I figured I could go in and cut those guys out and put them in a box and add them to my collection.

Did I mention that I am always surprised by bees.

Well the hanging section was a very small amount of the comb. The comb ran back almost 7 feet. it however was only about 8 inches deep so you really couldn't easily see it.

Also some very different aspects of this hive. The long shallow runs of comb were not only dark but very tough and brittle. The comb was not being used along the last two feet. My guess is the bees started here and have worked toward the other end. When they got to the other end they went the only way they could which was down.

Also the honey was dark, very dark. it tasted fine but it had the look of maple syrup. The cappings on the honeycomb were dark like the comb. It wasn't as brittle but it wasn't as soft. I went to work this time I had brought a sprayer with me. I had a sugar water mix with Honey B Health in it. I had kept it cold to slow down the bees when I sprayed them down.

I had to crawl under the trailer on my back to do this. So I couldn't wear my veil. So that is why along with smoke I wanted to spray them with the cold sugar water. I started cutting the old sections of comb. After about an hour I was about a 1/3 done with the old comb and starting on the honeycomb. I hadn't even gotten to the brood comb or the populated area. However after an hour the bees surprised me. The sugar water mix had worn off so they wern't cold anymore or sticky. However instead of being mad. They had started to move as a group across the comb and lick it clean. This was an astonding visual. It wasn't fast but is was deliberate. Also now that I had cut honeycomb the bees were starting to initate repairs. Nothing unusal in that but the movement of the collective was very neat to watch. Usually when I do a cut out the bees will go into honey rescue mode and repair mode but the build up is gradual and what happens is a few bees start and then more come and then more come. After a while you have a whole bunch of bees in repair mode. This time it seemed like a whole bunch of bees moved with a purpose.

Then my wife called. The clutch on her car gave out. Well I had to go and get the wife. Make sure her car was towed to the mechanic. I also now had to give her my car so she could get things done. And she was now going to have to take me to the airport so I could get to Atlanta. I was not going to be able to finish this cut out today. I let the owner know and she was fine with it.

I went and rescued my wife and dealt with the car. I had her drive me back to the trailer. I got my stuff and went back to the house and got my travel stuff and had her take me to the airport.

So now I sit in the airport writing my quick brief synopsis of what happened as I listen to boaqrding calls. When I get settled in the hotel if I have time I will add pictures. When I get back and finish the cutout I will give you the final details of the cut out.

Some questions for the members:
What happens or how does comb become so tough and brittle? It was not exposed to sunlight.

The brittle comb was not being used. It was not infested with SHB or wax moth or anything it was just sitting there. Is the hard brittle comb unappealing to SHB and wax moth?

I have seen dark honey for sale and this looked like it, a maple syrup color. The bees had a lot weeds that were flowering in the grass in this trailer park. What grows that makes honey dark? Or is it something other than the plant life. My wildflower honey isn't this dark.

Well my plane is getting ready. I land in Atlanta in about an hour and 45 min. Getting the rental and back to the hotel means it will probably be about two and half hours before I am settled. So you have a time limit to come up with great answers. ;)

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Kathyp · February 11, 2007, 06:38:20 PM

i can't answer any of your bee questions, but anyone who has to go near the Atlanta airport has my complete sympathy!!! :-P

Understudy · February 11, 2007, 06:55:50 PM

I took a voluntary bump to a later flight. I now land in ATL at around 9:30pm. Oh boo hoo me and my free round trip are going to the bar. :evil:

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Understudy · February 11, 2007, 07:59:26 PM

Photos are up.
http://www.brendhanhorne.com/coppermine_dir/thumbnails.php?album=74

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Jerrymac · February 11, 2007, 08:05:23 PM

Probably raised a few young'uns in the old comb. The cocoons along with propolis probably makes it pretty tough.

Kirk-o · February 11, 2007, 08:55:42 PM

What fantastic photos
kirk-0

Apis629 · February 11, 2007, 10:54:37 PM

Understudy, how many cut-outs have you done now? How're you so busy this time of year?

Cindi · February 11, 2007, 11:20:27 PM

Brendhan, I am always very impressed when you write your stories about your bee escapades. The pictures tell over thousand stories. I have not seen comb like what you cut out. I imagine one day I will, and it would be a good thing to see. Greatest of days. Cindi

Understudy · February 12, 2007, 12:34:48 AM

Apis629:

I am on 5 and half right now. This one isn't done yet.

On a side note I am finally in ATL. for the first time in over 20 years of flying I have had an airline lose my luggage. Fortunatly it was only one small bag. The problem is that my bag carried my jacket and change of clothes. So I am in ATL freezing my buns off. I shouldn't complain to badly. Just another example of how no good deed goes unpunished.

kathyp:
Atlanta is not as bad as it was in the 80's. The problem is that it is sliding back that way. Going through security takes forever now. The airlines are back to a park and hold pattern on the runways. Atlanta was doing well for a few years and now they have started to regress. The situation with doing a change over in Atlanta is also now getting to the point where an hour is not enough time to go from one gate to the other. Not because an hour isn't long enough but the planes are inevitably delayed. Also they were for a while forcing the airlines to stay grouped in one terminal So all the Delta flights were in Concourse B and all the AirTran flights were in Concourse D. So if you had a change over you only had to cross the concourse. That policy has also gone by the wayside. If the slide continues ATL will go back to it's bad reputation it had a decade ago.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

DBoire · February 12, 2007, 06:32:07 PM

Very nice, I'd like to get an idea of wax and honey volume! Also, I've never done a cutout but would like to try it. What are the steps required to integrate the bees into the new home?
D

Understudy · February 12, 2007, 08:44:15 PM

Quote from: DBoire on February 12, 2007, 06:32:07 PM
Very nice, I'd like to get an idea of wax and honey volume! Also, I've never done a cutout but would like to try it. What are the steps required to integrate the bees into the new home?
D

I almost never take the honey from the cutouts. I might give some to the homeowner. Usually I try to give it back to the bees. I don't want to feed my bees if I can avoid it. So I return the honey to them.

The steps to integrate are:
Luck luck, and more luck.
Basically I have two ways to deal with this. I want the queen. If the hive is healthy I will do everything I can to find the queen. I am usually not succesful in finding her. However if I am I will put her in a queen cage with some worker bees and put her in a hive body. With excluders over the entrances. Put the hive body close to where the cut out was and the bees will follow her and move into the hive. All the brood comb I can move into the hive I will move into the hive boxes also.

If I have not found the queen or a uncerain of her status. I will try to get as many of the bees into the hive boxes as possible with the brood comb. Here is what will happen, I now have two decisons to make. I can let the worker bees try to make a queen cell and hope all goes well. The risks are that there isn't a proper larvae to make into a queen cell, or the bees don't want to make a queen cell. Also it takes at least a month before you end up with a laying queen that way. That can devastate a hive because the number of workers drops dramatically. However if there are enough bees or you can spare some brood frames from other hives you will end up with another hive with a queen. The other thing I can do is a newspaper join. I do this if the cutout has caused the hive to abscond or the likelyness of my having a queen is very low thus my worker count is low. I will put the hive boxes on another hive with a sheet of newspaper inbetween the two groups. It takes about three days for the bees to chew through the paper in that time the stronger hive and the pheramones from the queen will usually cause the added bees to be accepted into the hive. Then I end up with a stronger hive.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Understudy · February 19, 2007, 12:51:13 AM

Well the cut out is complete.

What a bear of a job.

I went back a few days later and wanted to finish. The problem is it started to rain. I don't work on bees on my back in the dirt when it's raining.

So I went back today(11/18/07). Well the winds are blowing with high gusts and it's cold for SoFla.This will be no problem. Wrong wrong wrong. While it's cold, it isn't cold enough to slow down the bees. And while the breeze tends to be helpful when I am standing in an open area, under the trailer, what I have to deal with is a bunch of bees with nothing to do but get mad at me.

So I go and continue where I left off. They have already repaired the rough edges left on the comb from a week ago when I started this cut out. As I continue the cut out I have to put on gloves and a veil. It is darn hard to work under a trailer with a veil that everytime I lower my head gets knocked off everytime my head rests on the ground. The bees have developed a bit of an attitude toward the dude with the pumpkin knife who has nothing but good intentions.

In my process of cutting out I discoverd how strong honeycomb can be. The outside of the trailer was decorated with some white bricks in a stagarded pattern. One of the bricks had been turned in under the trailer. The bees built the comb around it. As I removed bricks this one was left hanging in mid air supported by the comb. For their next trick several of the bees will disappear down my shirt. Bastards.

After getiing the brick out and continuing the cutout. I noticed what seemed like a very hard section. I was cutting and the knife would now reqire some real elbow grease. It seemed this section of comb was really well reinforced with burr comb and something else. Bees don't demo well. They just build everything into the hive. Including the visquene that is the mostiure barrier for the underside of the trailer. It is amazing how strong comb and visquene are when combined. It came out in big ugly chunks with plastic woven into it.

I continued to cut and cut and cut. And then the sun started to come down and the temprature dropped. The bees started to slow down. The last of the comb was cut out. I brushed the rest of the bees into the new hive boxes for them with the brood comb I had fastened earlier as I was cutting out. I put an excluder over the top of the box and an excluder over the bottom entrance. And just in case I missed the queen and she absconds I set up a swarm trap with lemongrass oil on the fence about 20 feet away.

I have to go to Atlanta for a week. When I come back I either did well or screwed up.

Pictures continue here
http://www.brendhanhorne.com/coppermine_dir/thumbnails.php?album=74&page=2

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · February 19, 2007, 02:36:14 AM

.
Quite a job!

I looked pic # 25. There was plenty white chalk brood in cells? But it is result from cold.

buzzbee · February 19, 2007, 08:03:57 AM

looks like a good job. Pictures like that explain why you need hives with removable frames to deal with the bees. :)

Understudy · February 19, 2007, 08:07:47 AM

The reason I posted that picture is it is a cluster of drone cells. The ones that are a different color have new wax cappings. some have old wax cappings. I don't know why they are different. I don't think it was chaulk brood. However I will check the hive when I get back from Atlanta. The hive box is still where i did the cut out.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Finsky · February 19, 2007, 10:46:04 AM

Quote from: Understudy on February 19, 2007, 08:07:47 AM
. I don't think it was chaulk brood.

That white inside cells

http://www.brendhanhorne.com/coppermine_dir/displayimage.php?album=74&pos=24

Cindi · February 19, 2007, 10:54:28 AM

Brendhan, I still have to take my hat off to you. YOu are brave, bold and simply right out of your mind I would have to say. I don't even think that I would even want to get in there that close to the bees. Nuts I would say.

How many stings? I bet the attack stinger bees had a great time inside the shirt, ouch, eeks. How much swelling? LOL. Well, let us know when you get back how things fared. Again, good for you, keep on keepin' on. Best of days. Cindi

Kathyp · February 19, 2007, 11:15:14 AM

i have a question: after i cut out the comb and put what i could in the frames, i put the rest in a BIG rubber maid box. a lot of bees went into the rubber maid box. now the weather is crappy again. the bees are still in the box and not in the hive. i put the box near the hive in hopes that they would find it when there was a break in the weather. i'm afraid that what i'll get instead is a whole bunch of robbing of the honey.

how do you handle the bees that don't end up in the hive??

btw....i also found some very brittle white comb in the newer of the two hives i did. it was completely unused. my theory is that it was built late in the season and there was not brood or stores to fill it. it just sat over the winter....maybe for use this year?? anyway, it was so brittle that it shattered and crumbled when i tried to take it out.

Jerrymac · February 19, 2007, 11:39:41 AM

You got no brood and not sure you got the queen. It could be one of the queens is in the rubber maid box and that is where the bees went to even if she is dead. So they may not ever go into the hive.
Just how crappy is the weather? Perhaps they might make it until better weather arrives. Perhaps put something over them to protect from moisture. Then when it warms up brush them off the combs into the hive.

What was the temp when handling the white comb? New comb can be brittle in the cold. It could have been used at one time and they cleaned it out, moved the honey to another location in the hive.

Kathyp · February 19, 2007, 12:07:51 PM

the temp is in the 40's and it's raining. i already covered the box and put a shallow super with top over one end. they can come and go through the super and the rain won't get into the box.

it was about 50 degrees when i got these bees. the white comb was really white. like bleached white. it didn't look like it had ever been used and was on the very outside edge of the newest comb. i think you can kind of see it in one of those pics. the light wasn't very good up in that corner.

anyway....i'll chalk this up as a learning experience if the bees don't make it. there are a lot of bees in the hive, so if i didn't get the queen, i may have a chance of re-queening if they hang around.

this should have been done later, but the guy was pretty freaky about these bees so it was take them now, or he would kill them. i figured taking them at least gave them a chance.