Brewers' - Bakers' yeast \ soy flour...

SteveSC · February 12, 2007, 07:09:09 PM

I've been trying to find a source for these 3 items without much luck... I can find soy flour in 1.5 lb. boxes and no luck above a few ounces on the yeasts. If someone has a source where it can be bought in 25# - 50# bags I'd appreciate it.

Kathyp · February 12, 2007, 07:41:32 PM

i should think that a bakery supply place would have it. if you have a bakery around or even a grocery store that carries bulk, ask them. they can probably help. also google bulk 'whatever' and see what you find. i got quite a few hits, but don't know how much you want to pay in shipping....

Kirk-o · February 12, 2007, 08:13:44 PM

Can you by some pollen ?
kirk-o

Finsky · February 13, 2007, 02:47:26 AM

Quote from: SteveSC on February 12, 2007, 07:09:09 PM
no luck above a few ounces on the yeasts.

We have in every grocery baker's yeast near milk shelve 1-1,5 $/pound.

SteveSC · February 13, 2007, 08:10:21 AM

I don't know why but here we don't seem to sell it in quanities more than a few ounces at a time in the grocery stores.

Is the yeast normally a flour consistency or is it in flake form..? Does in matter either way as far as mixing it to make patties..?

Michael Bush · February 13, 2007, 09:11:33 AM

Try the farm store or a health food store.

Finsky · February 13, 2007, 10:10:35 AM

Quote from: SteveSC on February 13, 2007, 08:10:21 AM
I don't know why but here we don't seem to sell it in quanities more than a few ounces at a time in the grocery stores.

We have yeast in 50 g packages but we may bye a whole box altogether 1 kg ( 2 lbs) or several boxes.

IndianaBrown · February 13, 2007, 04:09:50 PM

Quoteno luck above a few ounces on the yeasts.

1 lb (454g) packages of instant yeast are available at Sam's Club. I think they come shrink wrapped in '2 packs' I don't recall what the price is.

In my limited restaurant baking experience (small pizza chain) 1 lb packages is about the size we used to have around. Although, as Kathy said, a specialty bakery would probably have a source to get it in larger quantities.

SteveSC · February 13, 2007, 08:46:51 PM

Here are three Brewers' yeast products I found. Prices are for 50# bags. I don't know enough about the analysis to understand if it's what I want for bees but I think I remember Finsky saying 20% protein was minimum. Can anyone break this analysis down so we can more readily understand it...?

Thanks..

Shipping is from $20 to $40 depending - from Ohio to SC it's $25 for me.

$76+ Shipping (1) http://www.diamondv.com/products/profiles/Product_Profile_XPC_6-06.pdf
$43+ Shipping (2) http://www.diamondv.com/products/profiles/Product_Profile_1004_XP_3-04.pdf
$35+ Shipping (3) http://www.diamondv.com/products/profiles/Product_Profile_1002_YC_6-06.pdf

IndianaBrown · February 13, 2007, 09:50:15 PM

Steve,

The total percent of protein of those yeast products is listed in the products as 'crude protein percent'. However, as Professor Finsky noted in another post, http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=7565.msg47518#msg47518 what really matters is specifically what amino acids the bees need vs. what amino acids are found in the food source.

It has been awhile since high school and college biology classes but.... You can think of amino acids as 'mini proteins' if it helps. Animals (and presumably insects) can break down some amino acids and rebuild them into other more needed ones as necessary, based on what is currently available from the diet. But for most animals, some amino acids are 'essential', meaning that they can not be built by breaking down other amino acids. (This is why vegetarians have to make sure that they eat a few specific sources of proteins such as nuts; some essential amino acids are hard to get in a vegetarian diet.)

The links Finsky provided were talking about the amino acid needs of chickens and pigs, not bees, so maybe Finsky can enlighten us as to what amino acids are essential for bees.

I only have 2 hives, so I just have a few of these around to help with spring build up:
http://betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=1629
But this substitute is about the same price as your yeast, has presumably been developed for and used successfully with bees, and comes in 50# bags:
http://betterbee.com/products.asp?dept=412

But since you are in South Carolina, I would expect that natural pollen would be available very soon now. :)

Finsky · February 14, 2007, 03:06:09 AM

Quote from: IndianaBrown on February 13, 2007, 09:50:15 PM
Steve,

The links Finsky provided were talking about the amino acid needs of chickens and pigs, not bees, so maybe Finsky can enlighten us as to what amino acids are essential for bees.

There has been vast research in USA which normal proteing stuffs are usefull to bees. And they are near the same as for human, pigs or shickens. It means that our evolution origin of our history is the same.

They have researched in paractice how different stuffs work with bees. Beekeepers have used what ever have come in their mind. When I first bougt 30 years ago soyaflour for bees, no one told how to use it. Now I founf information from internet 4 years ago.

These stuffs are useless for bees an awfully expencive: $43+ Shipping (2) http://www.diamondv.com/products/profiles/Product_Profile_1004_XP_3-04.pdf

Get normal yeast what are sold in grogery .It cannot be difficult. It is used in normal households

Amino acids are like differnet leco parts. You may combinate them and you get different kind of results. Genes give advice, to to combinate different aminoacids.

This picture is complicated but so is the life. To bye yeast from crogery, it is easy :-P Just ask .

1. The DNA double helix unwinds to expose a sequence of nitrogenous bases.

2. A copy of one of the strands is made in a process known as transcription. The copy is made of messenger ribonucleic acid (mRNA) which, following transcription, travels out of the nucleus into the main body of the cell, where protein synthesis occurs.

3. The mRNA couples with the protein synthesis apparatus (the ribosome). Another type of RNA, known as transfer RNA (tRNA), brings free amino acids to the ribosome.

4. The anticodon present on the tRNA recognises the codon present on the mRNA, and the ribosome adds the amino acid to the growing chain of linked amino acids (polypeptides), cleaving it away from the tRNA. This process is known as translation.

5. As the polypeptide chain grows, it folds to form a protein.

IndianaBrown · February 14, 2007, 04:12:21 AM

QuoteGet normal yeast what are sold in grocery .It cannot be difficult. It is used in normal households

Actually it is relatively difficult to find it cheap enough, in quantities large enough, to be of any use as an animal feed in many American grocery stores. Very few Americans bake for themselves anymore, and those who do typically use very small, relatively expensive, pre-measured packets of 'active dry yeast' or 'instant yeast'. http://www.foodsubs.com/LeavenYeast.html

(As an aside, my wife likes 'yeast extract' aka 'Vegemite'. But she is originally from Australia, so she doesn't know how bad it actually tastes. :-X Although she is vegetarian, she insists on eating millions of little yeasty-beasties :) )

As stated previously, bakery supply companies, bulk food outlets, or Sam's Club are possible sources. I don't know how the price would stack up compared to pollen patties or pollen substitute though.

Until/unless I have lots more hives I'll just keep using a pollen patty or two per hive, and trust that there will be enough natural pollen available when the weather breaks.

Michael Bush · February 14, 2007, 07:29:00 AM

If your going to spend that much, why not just buy pollen?

Finsky · February 14, 2007, 11:44:48 AM

.
I get my dry yeast from yeast factory in Finland, but the packed yeast comes from France. The main company of factory is in Canada.

Soya I get from this company http://www.hamletprotein.com/
product http://www.hamletprotein.com/
Look Essential Amino Acids catalogue

You se that Hamlet 100 protein has quite good aminoacid content compared to bee's demand

      Bee's       Hamlet
      optimum      100 soya
Threonine..      3      3,9
Valineâ€¦.....      4      4,8
Methionine      1,5      1,3
Leucineâ€¦..      4,5      7,7
Iso-leucine      4      4,6
Phenylalani      2,5      5
Lysineâ€¦..   ...   3      6,1
Histidine...      1,5      2,6
Arginineâ€¦   ...   3      7,2
Tryptophan      1      difficult to measure, but enough

SteveSC · February 14, 2007, 07:24:35 PM

Finsky: I understand what you're talking about now referring to the amino acids. Thanks.

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Indiana.....

Quote1 lb (454g) packages of instant yeast are available at Sam's Club. I think they come shrink wrapped in '2 packs' I don't recall what the price is.

I went by Sam's and they were out of the yeast. It's (2) 1 lb. packs for $3.75. I'll check around at a bakery supply outfit and see what they have.. I'll post what I find.

Finsky · February 15, 2007, 12:18:11 AM

Quote from: SteveSC on February 14, 2007, 07:24:35 PM
Finsky: I understand what you're talking about now referring to the amino acids. Thanks.
.

Thanks to you, that is good :-D

My aim was to feed much soya in patty but it hardener too much.

I found that much yeast is tasty for bees and it is easy to them to chew it. Brood areas were fine.

Does this pay your effort Steve, but the interesting point is to learn how you succeed and what means the nutrition of bees. It is worth learning a and se.