Did Starvation Kill My Hive?

MrILoveTheAnts · March 03, 2007, 03:57:21 PM

This thread would have some very nice pictures in it but it seems I need a higher post count to do that. Anyone interested, look up MrILoveTheAnts on Photobucket, click Bees and you should find them all.
Mod edit - added a few pictures at the end and a link to all pictures
Last April I did a split on my main hive to produce a second. They started out with 3 frames of full cells and maybe 4,000 bees. These quickly died out but a new queen was produced. Wax Moths did get in at one point but I was quick to find them and rid their larva from the hive. For a while this hive wasn't doing good at all but after 4 weeks their population exploded. Over the summer they even expanded to 6 frames (of 10), I thought they were going to survive the winter easily, there certainly seemed to be enough bees. All the while they only had a Nuc to live in, no supers or any other boxes were added nor did I take any honey from them. This morning, however, I opened the hive and found all the bees huddled together and dead.

All the usual suspects were there as well but certainly not enough of them, I think, to kill the hive off. I found no honey or brood. A few cells had pollen in them but they were away from the bees. I found all of the bees huddled in a cluster that was half of what I expected them to form, and many were inside the cells. (I still can't get them out.)

Annoyed, I started cleaning up the hive and looking for the queen. The frames were covered in dead bees all hooked together. I later found the queen in pile down below, I don't think she fell there when I was examining the frames.

During my search I found the remains of a queen cell. Non of the previous queen cells from April were around anymore so I'm guessing she died sometime around December and the workers thought to replace her somehow. The rest of the hive starved or froze to death shortly after.

Does this theory sound right?
Also should I do anything with the dead bees?
I would like to attempt a split again, does anyone have any suggestions? Is there anything wrong with doing a split in late March or early April? I ask because I'm doing a video project and the class ends on the first week of May. I would like to have a new queen bee as part of the content if I could.

All Pictures ->
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v735/mrilovetheants/Bees/

Robo · March 03, 2007, 04:24:16 PM

Looks like they starved to me.

Leaving Aspitan strips in over the winter is a good way to get fluvalinate resistant mites, not a good move. Not to mention contamination of the wax :evil:

Mici · March 03, 2007, 04:28:25 PM

definetly starvation!

MrILoveTheAnts · March 03, 2007, 04:32:26 PM

Thank you for adding the pictures. And I'm glad it didn't turn out to be some disease. I had no idea about the mites, though the strips I use are 2 or 3 years old anyhow. They're more for show at this point I think.
Actually there weren't any drones in the hive. Though I did find a few Drone cells, I believe all the Drones were out casted before winter began.

tillie · March 03, 2007, 05:59:46 PM

Your pictures look like mine of my hive that starved (discovered when I opened it last week). I never found the queen and think she was gone for quite some time. In one of my brood frames there were about 7 open queen cells at the bottom (no brood, no evidence of a queen any time recently). My guess is that the hive tried to re-queen and failed.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=7933.0

This is the link to my earlier post (and pictures that look like yours).

I want to learn how not to have this happen next year

Linda T in Atlanta

Mici · March 03, 2007, 06:04:38 PM

Quote from: tillie on March 03, 2007, 05:59:46 PM
I want to learn how not to have this happen next year

steal less honey or feed more sugar? probably....

Jarhead · March 03, 2007, 06:06:13 PM

I lost three hives so far to starvation this year. The warm weather in December and January caused the bees to brake the cluster and the Queen started to lay. A few days later it got real cold and they wouldn't move up and starved. The upper super was full.

Jerrymac · March 03, 2007, 06:13:43 PM

Quote from: MrILoveTheAnts on March 03, 2007, 04:32:26 PM
They're more for show at this point I think.

I just wonder what you mean by this?

MrILoveTheAnts · March 03, 2007, 06:46:13 PM

The mite strips were old, the packet they came in has been open for at least a year now. I would think mites have adapted to older formulas of the stuff...right?

wrk4beer · March 04, 2007, 07:58:58 PM

:( Had a warm couple of days and I checked out the hive.
Looked a lot like the pictures.
When I get new bees should I leave anything in the hive or start completly anew?
Thanks for any help
Keith

tillie · March 04, 2007, 09:41:36 PM

My understanding is that if you are sure the bees starved, then you can clean the hive of the dead bodies and re-use. If they died of AFB or something else, then you have to burn out the inside of the hive with a propane torch. But starvation doesn't leave germs or viruses behind...just lots of dead bees.

I've shaken most of the bodies out of my frames and cleaned off the SBB (looking for a nonexistent queen the whole time). The cells where the bees are deeply headfirst in the cell I am planning to cut out of the comb, but the new bees (according to Michael Bush and others) are fine with using what's there are a starting place but will replace the comb themselves. In other words if there's a hole in the comb, I can expect that the bees will repair it.

I think that's right, but I'm only at the end of my first year with lots to learn going forward.

Hope that makes sense,

Linda T in Atlanta

Linda T

Michael Bush · March 04, 2007, 09:43:53 PM

>If they died of AFB or something else, then you have to burn out the inside of the hive with a propane torch.

AFB yes. Something else. No.

Robo · March 04, 2007, 10:14:00 PM

Quote from: tillie on March 04, 2007, 09:41:36 PM
The cells where the bees are deeply headfirst in the cell I am planning to cut out of the comb, but the new bees (according to Michael Bush and others) are fine with using what's there are a starting place but will replace the comb themselves. In other words if there's a hole in the comb, I can expect that the bees will repair it.

That is not necessary, just clean up what you can and give it to the new bees. It is much easier for them to clean out the "head first" bees than to build new comb.

tillie · March 04, 2007, 10:21:28 PM

Thanks for that - I thought I had to get them all out - so glad I haven't cut the comb yet. Keeping the bodies around because it makes me sad! :-D Not really.....but I'm relieved. I'll just shake out what I can and put the rest back in the hive for the new girls to earn their keep!

An old beekeeper gave me some old boxes - 25 years old - and I understood from the feedback on this forum that I had to burn out the insides before using them because of the possibility of disease - I guess it would be just to avoid AFB? That's why I said AFB or something else...anyway, they are all sitting in my carport, not burned out yet and just waiting for me to open up my propane torch that I purchased for the occasion!

This forum is always so helpful and I really appreciate those experienced ones of you who share so much.

Linda T

Michael Bush · March 04, 2007, 10:53:52 PM

>It is much easier for them to clean out the "head first" bees than to build new comb.

Agreed.

MrILoveTheAnts · March 04, 2007, 11:47:51 PM

Fantastic! I hope to reattempt splitting my big as soon as it gets warm out.