ANTS

papabear · March 05, 2007, 07:03:05 PM

I just saw that next to my hive (about 4 feet away) there is a big ant pile. What is the best way to get rid the ants and not the bees?

Kathyp · March 05, 2007, 07:12:46 PM

believe it or not...and i got the idea here...cinnamon worked for me. i sprinkled it around the hive, ground, on top of the hive, and even tossed some against the sides. in a couple of days, the ants were gone. the dollar store had a bunch of it and i bought it cheep.

others here will give you ideas for ant proofing your hives. the cinnemon is only a kind of repellent.

papabear · March 05, 2007, 07:19:26 PM

I'm going to the dollar store. Thanks

reinbeau · March 05, 2007, 08:03:07 PM

Here's a second for cinnamon. Ants don't seem to cross it.

pdmattox · March 05, 2007, 08:09:02 PM

GaurdStar is good for ants but unless they are attacking the hive then i would use the cinnamon. I try to not use chems unless it is last resort.

AllanJ · March 05, 2007, 09:23:06 PM

Axle grease on the legs of the hive stand will stop them from getting into the hive..

Ruben · March 05, 2007, 09:54:20 PM

Are the ants getting into your hives or did you just see the pile? Depending on what kind of stands you are using you can put grease around the pole and they won't climb it. Another thing you could do is build a moat around the legs of the stand and fill it with used motor oil. I have not done the cinimmon idea, I wonder if you could sprinkle it on the bottom board and prevent them from entering the hive? That way it would still be there after a rain.

Michael Bush · March 05, 2007, 10:59:11 PM

>What is the best way to get rid the ants and not the bees?

If they aren't bothering the bees, I wouldn't worry about them. The world is full of ants. I bet you can't find 10 square feet that doesn't have more than one ant colony in it.

If they are a problem borax and jelly seems to take care of it.

alexcc1 · March 05, 2007, 11:20:06 PM

My two hives are on a stand. I just put each leg in a coffee can and put some diatomaceous earth in each can. That stopped them. By what I have read it is supposed to have a sharp crystaline structure that actually cuts the ants and causes them to dehydrate.
I also have a cone shaped cover to keep out most of the water and hopefully the bees too. Of course you may need to make some holes in the cans to keep them from filling with water. You can get it at local nurseries. Don't use the stuff for pools. I understand that it has been heat treated and is not effective.

Alex

Apis629 · March 05, 2007, 11:52:52 PM

I've found that, for the most part, unless you're feeding sugar syrup, the ants leave my bees alone. If the colony is week, or they are being bothered by ants, I just get a bulk pack of cinnamon and spread it around the hive, on the hive, wherever. The ants won't cross it and the bees don't seem to care.

Greg Peck · March 06, 2007, 07:31:53 AM

I had a bunch of small black ants hanging out on top of the inner cover. I did not see them inside the hive but there were at least 100 hanging out there. I would sweep them off but the next hive check they would be back. I ask the local bee guy and he told me to put one or two black walnut leaves between the covers. I did and the ants disappeared. Apparently they hate the smell. The bees did not care at all. I cant see how they would be a big problem so long as they are not in the hive. They are like little garbage men keeping the area clean.

Here is an ant carrying away a dead bee.

Click to enlarge!

Here is a pic of my pail feeder with a little branch of walnut leaves beside it.

Click to enlarge!

Mici · March 06, 2007, 10:40:17 AM

they're part of ecosystem, actually, if some of you didn't know (probably you all do) they are very close relatives to bees. anyway, just as important as bees, like mr. Bush said, if they aren't bothering, leave them.

ants around here have gotten pretty tricky, you know those sticky tapes that you put on trees, well, even if i put it around the tree for 3 times it doesn't work for no more than,....2 days. like bees, they work together so...the simply carry bits of soil until it gets passible. smart huh?

Fannbee · March 06, 2007, 01:02:53 PM

If they are fire ants, kill them. Kill them again just to make sure.

Also, you might unknowlying step on that fire ant hive which would be worse than messing with a mad bees.

papabear · March 06, 2007, 02:36:04 PM

They are not bothering them yet so i will leave them alone. Thanks

MrILoveTheAnts · March 06, 2007, 03:12:01 PM

Quote from: Greg Peck on March 06, 2007, 07:31:53 AM
Here is an ant carrying away a dead bee.

Click to enlarge!

Here is a pic of my pail feeder with a little branch of walnut leaves beside it.

Click to enlarge!

The ant in that picture there is probably Camponotus pennsylvanicus, they nest in dead wood usually suffering from extreme water damage. Because of their large size and the limited nesting available they usually branch off into smaller sub-colonies, but still only one Queen. (sometimes there can be more but this is short lived.) They probably steal some honey off and on but colonies don't usually get more than 10,000 to 15,000 ants. They focus on more sugary foods in the fall time as it stores better. Usually they have herds of aphids out in the woods. Foraging is mostly done at night.

I've had other species such as Camponotus nearcticus which is half the size of most Camponotus living in my older hive boxes and I've found them in hive attics also. They weaken the wood so I'm switching over to Polystyrene hives. Colonies probably don't grow to much larger than 5,000 ants.

Crematogaster are smaller ants that nest similar to C. pennsylvanicus. They will burrow through the wood and probably steal some honey and pollen too. Probably not something you want in any of your hives. I had to coat the legs of a table my hive sits on with Vegetable Oil and greasy stuff to get them to move out.
http://www.myrmecos.net/myrmicinae/crematogaster.html
Notice the heart shaped abdomen and scorpion like posture. Species of this genus tend to produce irritating chemicals and odors.

The ants in question in the main post could be a few things depending on where they're from. Up north where it's still cold out it's likely Prenolepis imparis is probably the only ant that can forage during winter months. I have found them marching into my hives but they're only after the honey and are awful predators. It doesn't take much to feed them either. A cell of honey can easily feed a few hundred of their workers. Workers are easily identified because they balloon up with honey. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/mrilovetheants/P.jpg
Down south where it's gotten warmer or never chilled I would say it's more likely a Lasius, or Formica. Formica are slightly smaller ants than the huge Camponotus but they live in the soil. Formica are probably the biggest threat as some species form massive colonies that will over run weak hives. This is seen more out in the woods when a bear has riped open a tree or something like that, these are the ants that would invade the hive afterward. Out in the field however colonies don't get nearly this big. Smaller species tend to do way better at over powering bigger ants but smaller ones are less of a threat to bees. If their nest is nothing more than a small mound or two you don't need to worry.
And obviously if they're fire ants you'd know it from the blistering stings. Fire ants are still a tropical species and only found in southern states.
Solenopsis invicta if anyone's interested.
http://www.myrmecos.net/myrmicinae/solenopsis.html

[EDIT] Since you're in LA they could also be harvester ants but without a picture who knows. http://www.myrmecos.net/myrmicinae/pogonomyrmex.html

GTBee · March 07, 2007, 03:51:20 PM

I know this sounds weird but if you have small hive beetles and they are fire ants, the fire ants will attach the beetles. I found out last year by accident. Only a few of the ants invaded the hive and they went after the shb. You just have to be careful around them.
So far that is the only good thing about fire ants!

Fannbee · March 07, 2007, 09:12:23 PM

That is first good thing I have heard about Fire Ants.

One time I was cleaning out my gutters and discovered they can live in gutters.

nepenthes · March 07, 2007, 09:49:17 PM

Some species (not fire ants) actually live in just leaf litter, eather that or it has been a while since you have cleaned out your gutters and it decomposed.

MrILoveTheAnts · March 08, 2007, 01:04:20 AM

Cows that graze in fields infested with fire ants have almost no ticks and far fewer fly bites. They're not all bad, they just have an awful sting. America has a native species of fire ant that is being replaced by S. invicta.
A bad thing about S. invicta is they nest around electrical objects such as fuse boxes and sometimes cause fires; as if their sting wasn't bad enough.

I would be interested to know if some species actually go after the mites living in the hive. There are quite a few micro species of ant out that are specialized predators of even smaller bugs.

BEE C · March 08, 2007, 05:18:18 AM

Fascinating...I had an ant problem, small and redish brown. They were a pest around fall feeding. I used cinnamon and it worked but needed to be repeatedly applied which in BC falls is not an option really due to continual rains. Black walnut sounds interesting, we have a huge black walnut tree out front. Now I have something to barter with cindi for seeds :-D