New Package Fun

AllanJ · March 31, 2007, 08:16:11 PM

So I got them home about 5:30 and had the hive setup and ready by 6pm. The bees appeared to be a lot more active than I expected. I sprayed them with syrup and knocked them all down to the bottom of the cage. This just seemed to make them mad :)

I had decided not to wear a jacked since everything I read said you did not need one for installing a package. I know, stupid mistake. So I opened the cage again and knocked them into the hive just as all the instructions state.

Well, they just got mad and about 300 of the buggers went after me and my family which was watching about 20ft away. I was stung within the first few seconds. We moved away and suited up and returned. At this point I decided to direct release the queen into the hive and close it up. They were climbing up the walls of the hive and over the top so I had to brush them off to get the frames in.. which just made them madder :)

I eventually got the queen in, the frames in, the top feeder on and the top. Grabbed my tools and was out of there. A few followed me back to the house and I got stung again after I thought it was safe and had taken my suit off.

Overall, the experience certainly did not resemble any of the pleasant videos I have seen or books I have read. I am hoping they accept the queen and settle down.

What did I do wrong? If anything? Did I not spray enough syrup on the bees?

Michael Bush · March 31, 2007, 09:43:34 PM

>I sprayed them with syrup and knocked them all down to the bottom of the cage. This just seemed to make them mad

First spray the screen and wait for them to eat the syrup. Continue to spray the screen and let them suck up the syrup until they stop taking it. THEN knock them down and install them.

>I had decided not to wear a jacked since everything I read said you did not need one for installing a package.

I pretty much don't do ANYTHING without a jacket with a zip on veil.

>Well, they just got mad and about 300 of the buggers went after me and my family which was watching about 20ft away.

If they were full AND a bit sticky from syrup, then they usually don't fly much.

>They were climbing up the walls of the hive and over the top so I had to brush them off to get the frames in.. which just made them madder

The secret to brushing is you don't do it gently (unlike almost everything else in beekeeping which you DO gently). Brushing them gently rolls them which makes them very angry, as you found out.

>Overall, the experience certainly did not resemble any of the pleasant videos I have seen or books I have read.

Reality never does. :)

>I am hoping they accept the queen and settle down.

They probably will.

>What did I do wrong? If anything? Did I not spray enough syrup on the bees?

It's not a matter of "enough". It's a matter of letting them eat their fill first. My guess is that feeder can was empty and they were hungry.

qandle · April 01, 2007, 12:26:30 AM

Allen:

Michael offers good specific advice for the situation. Here are my thoughts: I can't say for sure, but just from the way you describe everything, your actions, etc., it also sounds to me like you were in a rush, moving too quickly, etc.

I have found that almost every time I've been stung, I've been in a rush; trying to do things too quickly, not in a slow, patient, certain way.

That's just some overall advice that I offer based on your description of your doings.

Do everything slowly, surely, camly, but with confidence, and the bees will tend to remain more calm.

Quint

AllanJ · April 01, 2007, 10:25:39 AM

Thanks Michael and Quint. I think I did rush things a little too much towards the end. I went down there this morning and there appears to be a small cluster in the package box. Mostly inside, but a few on the outside. There are not enough for it to be the main hive so I do not believe the queen is in there.. but I am surprised they did not go into the hive. The temp has drop to 50f over night so there are no bees outside the hive entrance. I have the entrance reducer on at the smallest setting.

What should I do with this small cluster? Empty them out near the hive? Open the hive and pour them in? Open up the hive entrance so the others can fan their scent? Or just leave them and do nothing?

Thanks.

Cindi · April 01, 2007, 10:49:25 AM

Alan, what a introduction to our beekeeping world. Sounds like you had a bunch of really annoyed bees. Michael was right about letting them fill up on syrup first if you are spraying them. Especially if their feeder can was empty.

When we hived our packages at our instructors farm this was what we basically did.

We simply removed the sugar syrup can and queen cage, bumped the package box so the bees were at the top where the can was, opened up the hive and dumped them out into the hive. Gave the syrup, put the queen cage hanging between two frames. Closed them up. Stuffed grass lightly in the entrance (no wooden entrance reducer) and that was it, basically. We never sprayed them with syrup. That was my experience. Have the best day and good luck, enjoy your beekeeping.

The grass was to prevent robbers and to slow their exit so they have to orient well. It worked. Cindi.

Michael Bush · April 01, 2007, 09:07:37 PM

>What should I do with this small cluster? Empty them out near the hive?

On the landing board will do.

> Open the hive and pour them in?

That would work, but the landing board will disrupt things less.

> Open up the hive entrance so the others can fan their scent?

Is the entrance closed? Then you need to either dump them inside or open it up.

> Or just leave them and do nothing?

They will die if you do.

the kid · April 01, 2007, 09:32:38 PM

by the sounds of what you had ,,we must have been lucky last year ,,( our first year) our package went in and had very few flyers ,,, Im glad we didnt have one like yours ,, cause we didnt wear any vail ,, now this year i'm hoping they do the same ,, maybe this year might just put the queen in and take the can out and set it over the inner cover hole ,,and put a super around it and come back in a few hours to get the super ,,and let the girls get the queen out.. But that takes all the fun out of the instal/// Right
Hope you hve a calm hive
the kid

AllanJ · April 01, 2007, 10:46:45 PM

I took away the entrance reducer and then poured them on the landing board. The bees were fairly active during the day flying around the hive. I have nothing to compare them against so no idea if things are right or not. Will find out in a few days when I open up the hive for the 1st inspection.

Thanks.

GerryL · April 02, 2007, 06:30:13 PM

Alan:

That was a riot!!! I'm still laughing. I probably shoudn't be, because I get my first package for my very first hive in two weeks. Believe me I'm taking in all the info everyone gave you. I think I'll keep the wife and kids out of the picture. Good luck with your hive.

AllanJ · April 02, 2007, 06:54:48 PM

Gerry,

It was a wonderful introduction to beekeeping. When I dumped those bees into the hive and was stung within 5 seconds, my family, who were watching all ran for cover. It would have been a prime candidate for AFV had someone had a video. My wife was laughing, my son kept running, I was thinking 'what the hell am I doing playing around with 10,000 angry bees'. The only one with a sensible head on was my 12 year old daughter who rode back to the shed and got our jackets and gloves.

In the end, my jacket looked like I had been in a paint ball game with lots of little brown pot marks on the back.

I opened up the top cover this evening to check on the syrup level and could see a few hundred bees in the cage area and one side of the top feeder was empty. I sat and watched them afterwards. I just kept seeing them flying around on the outside of the hive and wondered if any nectar was coming in.. after a few minutes I saw a bee come in with nectar/pollen on her legs. That was the best sight and certainly makes me feel better.

Canâ€™t wait until I open up the hive to check on the queen..

Cindi · April 03, 2007, 11:10:56 AM

Hey, Allan, I have to agree with Gerry, I laughed my guts out too, I just didn't want to tell ya, thought it might be kind of mean. LOL.

You saw pollen in the pollen basket. The nectar is sucked up and held in the "honey stomach" until she gets back to the hive, then she relieves herself of it. Just a little bit of trivia of the bee.

Have a great day, love what you are doing, tell us more...it is good to hear of the experiences of humans and their life with the honeybee. Lovin' life. Cindi

MarkR · April 03, 2007, 11:35:20 AM

Hey Alan,

Well, hell, you got them in there. That's what counts, right? And provided a bit of levity for your family and for all of us. Right on, man! :mrgreen:

Mark

AllanJ · April 03, 2007, 03:01:03 PM

Hey Mark.. when are you going to open up your hives for the 1st inspection? Today seems to soon (day 3) but we have rain/wind tomorrow and then low temps for the rest of the week..

Cindi · April 04, 2007, 12:23:31 AM

I wouldn't open the hive yet. It has only been 3 days, the bees might ball the queen and that would be a major setback as you would have to requeen. If the weather is bad over the next week, in my opinion, I would just let them be, go on the thought that the queen has been accepted.

I had an experience last year with a package colony that had been hived for about a month. I accidentally had killed the first queen (I found out a few days after I had hived them that the sugar syrup can had dripped right onto the queen in the cage and I think that she died from that).

I requeened and things were going great. The queen was laying, working her butt off. Then, like I said, about a month later it was a dark and cold day. I wanted to see if the queen was still laying. Yes, I saw eggs.

The next day I saw the bees dragging the queen out the front door. Oh brother. I know for a fact that it was my fault again that the queen was killed. I should not have opened the roof of their house on that dark, cloudy and cold day. Never again. I learned a lesson the hard way. Two queens sent to their death, ya gotta learn something! I united this queenless colony with another package colony hived the same day, using the newspaper method and all went well.

Don't bother your hive on those dark, windy, cold days, wait for warmth and sunshine, no wind. In my opinion, it is not worth it and I don't advise it. Have a great night and wonderful day. Cindi

AllanJ · April 04, 2007, 07:44:40 AM

Cindi, Of course you are right and I will refrain from opening it up too soon.. :)

This package was put into a medium with Permacomb. So my question is.. How quick could a new package exhaust 1 medium which contains permacomb (already drawn out) if they were strong, have a good nectar and pollen flow, plenty of sugar syrup and the queen was direct released and she got busy almost immediately?

MarkR · April 04, 2007, 09:42:56 AM

Quote from: AllanJ on April 03, 2007, 03:01:03 PM
Hey Mark.. when are you going to open up your hives for the 1st inspection? Today seems to soon (day 3) but we have rain/wind tomorrow and then low temps for the rest of the week..

Well, I was hoping for this weekend but if it's chilly I'll wait til next week. Things are happening though. I'm spending far too much time just watching, while there are things to be planted. Ah well.

Mark

Cindi · April 04, 2007, 10:12:24 AM

Right, let's wait for some answers. I do know that they will need some work to do, they will need to draw some foundation so they aren't bored (LOL). I keep hearing that that is one way for swarm prevention, apparently having comb to draw is one way to keep the bees busy so they don't think of swarming. Have the great day. Cindi

KONASDAD · April 04, 2007, 10:29:39 AM

Last year, I had one deep of bees during the flow. These bees drew out the second deep in less than a week on just foundation. My other hive took over a month to draw a medium. You'll just have to look in from the top w/o actually moving frames. Try to stay ahead of them. They can do a lot i a flow is strong. If the weather is warm, better to have extra room.

MarkR · April 05, 2007, 04:28:26 PM

Not sure where to put this so here feels good.

So, I installed last Saturday. Did a quick check inside yesterday afternoon (still around 70 degrees)because we were about to have a cold snap. Everything seemed fine, but I'm new to this so what do I know.

So today we have highs in the lower 50's, and a good frost last night. I go to put the third gallon on syrup in the feeder to find that they still have most of the second gallon I gave them on Monday. Because of the temp I didn't expect to see much flying but I'm not seeing any at all. There are a few bees visible inside the entrance and a few in the feeder (maybe a dozen).

Should I be worried about anything? Less than two gallons in about a week seems a little light from everything I've been taught. Any thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.

Mark

thegolfpsycho · April 05, 2007, 05:04:24 PM

Overfeeding slows a colonys growth faster than just about anything else. They start storing syrup instead of raising bees, and limit brood nest expansion. When they finally do get going, they are crowded and swarm early, setting them back, eliminating your chances to make a crop, and finally ending up strong just about the time you have to feed them up again for winter. There are many different ideas about feeding, and I'm sure you can find many threads about it in the forum. In any case, I would be suprised if a new package took 2 gallons in 2 weeks.