How long before workers become "laying workers"

[Cindi]

Right, now I have a question that I  been meaning to ask for a long time, I keep forgetting.

When a hive has become queenless and does not have any eggs to raise a queen with, how long does it take before the workers can evolve and become laying workers?   I never have seen any data on this subject and this brings a huge amount of curiosity.  Have a wonderful, beautiful day, even though here, the sun may not shine.  Cindi

[tig]

i've noticed mine within 4 days of being queenless and eggless

[Jerrymac]

I heard/read some where that there could laying works in the hive with the queen. Just that there is the egg police to dig those eggs out and seek out and destroy the layer.

Then I also heard that if you put in open brood the laying of eggs stops. And that it is best to do this before introducing a queen into a laying worker colony or they would kill the queen.

[imabkpr]

I heard/read some where that there could laying works in the hive with the queen. Just that there is the egg police to dig those eggs out and seek out and destroy the layer.

Quote;  TRUE THERE COULD BE LAYING WORKERS IN THE HIVE WITH THE QUEEN
AND THE QUEEN COULD BE A DRONE LAYER ALSO. ITS HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

Then I also heard that if you put in open brood the laying of eggs stops. And that it is best to do this before introducing a queen into a laying worker colony or they would kill the queen.

WHEN I HAVE A DRONE LAYER, FAILED QUEEN OR LAYING WORKER, IF IT IS A SINGLE STORY I SET IT ON TOP OF A STRONG COLONY. IF IT IS A 2 STORY COLONY I SET ON TOP OF 2 STRONG COLONIES. THE BEES WILL TAKE CARE OF THE DRONE LAYER.     CHARLIE

[Michael Bush]

>When a hive has become queenless and does not have any eggs to raise a queen with, how long does it take before the workers can evolve and become laying workers?

It's not how long it's queenless as, contrary to popular belief, it's not the queen pheromones that suppress the laying workers, it's the pheromones from the open brood.  Almost always within two weeks of no open brood they seem to have laying workers.  Sometimes less.  So basically, if you removed a queen today you'd have open brood for another 9 days or so.  From that point on the pheromones supressing them are gone and sometime after that they will develop.  There is no definitive time that I can see.  Sometimes it's much quicker, like the four days quoted above, and sometimes it takes as long as two weeks, but I have not seem them go broodless longer than two weeks without laying workers.

By the same token adding open brood to a hive once a week will keep the pheromones from the open brood in the hive and in a few weeks they will start to rear a queen.  This is, however, a lot of trouble if you're dealing with a hive 60 miles away.  It is, of course, trivial if it's in your back yard and you have other hives to get the brood from.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

[Cindi]

I wonder how many of us forum members have hives that are a long distance from our homes.  I bet that most of the hobbiest beekeepers have them  in their own back yard (or on their porch, while they can look at them during their lunch break, like Linda).  LOLL.

I know that once there are laying workers in a colony, that is a very difficult situation to "fix".  These poor young girls are now all so messed up.

The answers in this post are all very interesting.

Michael right, it is the pheremones that the larvae emit that make the bees feed the larave. juvenile pheremone to be exact, correct this if wrong  .  Your site is good, it tells all.  It must be stressed that forum members take advantage of all the work that you have strived to put out and have worked so hard for the betterment of the beekeeper and successful beekeeping.

This juvenile hormone is why the varroa mite can tell "the best  cell to enter" to lay her eggs?  aka. Drone cell.  Correct? The larvae exude pheremones, drone brood emit large amounts, the varrroa mite detects these and then reacts. 

that is why the drone brood is so easily found by the varroa.  The amount of hormone exuded?

Good day, good night, all have a wonderful and beautiful day -- and good health.  Cindi

There is so much to be known about hive pheremones.  Study,