Dead Queen Found

smallswarm · May 07, 2007, 10:47:11 AM

I have been puzzled by something that happened to my hive and would like some of your thoughts. So as not to bias, I will only state the facts.

First, my hive is a nuc. I like nucs. I live in the city. Don't want to attract too much attention from children and authorities. Nuclear hives are perfect for studying bees. After my first swarm on March 14, 2007, I added a frameless minisuper to give them room to work some natural comb and slow them down.

Exactly 44 days after that first swarm, in the early morning, I found a queen hanging from the front entrance totally dead. Some workers were trying to pry her off. One wing was disjointed, and her stinger aparatus was open. She was almost solid gold - no stripes, and no hair on the legs.

Also, in that time, I never pulled any frames or even opened the box, so there is no way I could have injured the queen, and the hive continued to build and thrive after the dead queen incident like it was no big deal.

What could have happened? Thanks!

TwT · May 07, 2007, 10:55:49 AM

after the swarm 2 queens (from cells) fought it out and you are seeing the loser.... , or something could have been wrong with her and they replaced her. you should inspect and see whats going on, bet there is another queen in the hive but you should still check to see.

Shizzell · May 07, 2007, 02:02:03 PM

Exactly, do what TWT says. Check the hive and see if there are eggs. If there are eggs - congrats on atleast one queen surviving,and then enjoy your hive.

Jake

Brian D. Bray · May 07, 2007, 06:46:07 PM

When checking bear in mind the length of time (3 weeks) that's needed before a new queen starts to lay eggs. You might still find a few capped brood cells. The absence of eggs does not mean the hive is queenless, just that you don't have a laying queen yet. Be patient, if you can't find the queen don't panic unless you begin finding lots of eggs in each cell (laying worker) or there are no new eggs after several weeks.

TwT · May 07, 2007, 10:04:28 PM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 07, 2007, 06:46:07 PM
When checking bear in mind the length of time (3 weeks) that's needed before a new queen starts to lay eggs. You might still find a few capped brood cells. The absence of eggs does not mean the hive is queenless, just that you don't have a laying queen yet. Be patient, if you can't find the queen don't panic unless you begin finding lots of eggs in each cell (laying worker) or there are no new eggs after several weeks.

it has been 44 days since the swarm, bet he will find eggs now if he has a queen...

Michael Bush · May 08, 2007, 12:30:53 AM

The problem with a nuc in town, is it will undoubtedly swarm and that tends to scare people more than a white box in your yard.

smallswarm · May 08, 2007, 08:05:48 AM

Quote from: TwT on May 07, 2007, 10:55:49 AM
after the swarm 2 queens (from cells) fought it out and you are seeing the loser.... , or something could have been wrong with her and they replaced her.

I was thinking supercedure, your second idea, since it was a month and a half after the swarm left that this dead queen was found. Could a loser queen remain in the hive for that long after a swarm? Definitely looked to me like there was a fight though, and the light color and hairless legs made me think it wasn't a fully developed queen.

How long can 2 queens be together in the same hive before a swarm departs? Let's say the weather turns bad right after the new queen emerges.

Brian D. Bray · May 10, 2007, 08:28:09 PM

Worker bees will hold a queen in the queen cell and release her at their will. Also the timing of the queen hatching might have been from a second set of queen cells to make such a late hatch after the swarm date if they were fully satisfied with queens from the first batch. If larvae of the proper age are still available I've seen them skip/hold an emerging queen in her cell long enough to see what develops from a queen started a week or 2 later than the other.
In holding a queen in the cell the bees feed her throught the opening the queen is making trying to open the cell while at the same time continually resealing the cell to keep her penned. When they do this they may not like the 1st queen and are waiting to see what the next set of queens will produce then, if they like the later hatching queen better, they will kill the queen they've been holding.
Either way they will keep the queen they like the better of the 2.
Under such a senerio it's impossible for 44 days to have lapsed and still not have a laying queen.