Do i switch supers when one is half capped

tom · May 10, 2007, 11:34:39 AM

Hello

I have a super that is half capped and i put a super on top of it should i wait to switch it by moving the full super up and the new empty on the bottom. I was told by some of the local guys to wait till they fully cap the super and then i should add another one. But since it is half capped i was thinking of moving it on top should i wait or go ahead and switch them now.

Tom :-\

Shizzell · May 10, 2007, 01:39:17 PM

I have a few questions for you. Do you use duragilt or something like it? Do the bees have to build the foundation? If they do, take off the super. If they don't and the foundation is already built for them. Let them fill it up more.

Also, don't switch the empty super and the half full super. What would be the purpose of that?

Jake

tom · May 10, 2007, 04:59:19 PM

Hello

No i am using regular foundation and they have been busy wrking today since the sun came out all you can hear is a roaring sound coming from the yard. I do not have any drawn out and i did put a empty super on top i am going to cut these combs out when they are ready and going to switch the supers but i have a good crop coming in this is my first year trying to get honey.

Tom

doak · May 10, 2007, 07:04:30 PM

Either way is ok. Just more unnecessary work to flip-flop. Just don't put the secound one on too early. I use the 7-10 method. When 7 out of the 10 is capped.
One exception, if you want comb honey with the cap on. then flip-flop. it keeps travel stain off.

For what it's worth. I added the 7th box to the swarm/hive I got on Easter week end.
The swarm would have filled a 5 gallon bucket. Biggest I've seen ever. I hived them in drawn comb frames, and in a full flow, fed only one gallon of syrup :)
doak

AllanJ · May 10, 2007, 09:36:42 PM

You would add another super when 6-7 frames of foundation is drawn, not when it is full with honey and capped. The bees need an awful lot of space to store nectar and remove the water. If you had drawn comb and it was no longer freezing overnight, you could add 4 hive bodies when the flow started. As to where the super is located, I believe that foundation will be drawn faster if it is immediately above the brood boxes.

tom · May 11, 2007, 01:07:20 AM

Well the super is way over half capped and the second super is sitting on top of it. I am trying to get comb honey because that is what everyone here wants and when asked if they wanted just the honey they said no they want comb honeyso i have to go with the customers. So when they cap over all of the frames i am going to move the new one close to the brood box and let them draw that out i must be in a good flow because all my hive are filling the outer edges with honey and pollen and i am going to take some frames out of my big hive and put in some foundation to open the brood nest up so my young queen can fill it with brood.

Tom ;)

Finsky · May 11, 2007, 01:33:27 AM

Quote from: tom on May 11, 2007, 01:07:20 AM
Well the super is way over half capped and the second super is sitting on top of it.

First of all : Enlarge the hive according bee number that colony will not swarm. They need room to enlarge even if bees do not get honey

When hive gets honey, put allways new empty combs or foundations between honey and brood. It prevents swarming.
In early spring when it it still cold nights, I put new room under brood area.

It is not possible that you wait untill one box is capped or half capped and then you put a new box. Hive will swarm because queen has no room to lay.

If it is difficult to decide, how much colony needs new room, but probably much, I put one box over the brood and one box under it.

Brian D. Bray · May 12, 2007, 11:03:34 PM

If your doing comb honey it is best to move your honey super up and place the comb super under it. The honey in the top super will help draw the bees into the comb honey box. Bees don't like working comb honey, the squares are very unnatural. Spray the foundation in your comb honey box with sugar syrup as this will help draw the bees up. To get comb honey the hive must have a large population and then forced/inticed to work the comb supers. Sandwiching the comb supers between two honey supers will work better. Use of an excluder during comb honey production is one of the few times I will use 1.

Zoot · May 12, 2007, 11:41:47 PM

Brian,
why use an excluder in this case? I thought you were getting good results using an upper slatted rack in place of one.

Brian D. Bray · May 13, 2007, 01:29:57 AM

Zoot,
Because most people have excluders and haven't caught on to the idea that a slatted rack works better. You're right I should have said in their situation. I do use the 2nd slatted rack as in place of a queen excluder with good results.
My hive setup is, top down:
Top entrance
8 Frame medium Honey super
8 frame medium Honey super
2nd Slatted rack
Medium 8 frame Brood chamber
Medium 8 frame Brood chamber
Medium 8 frame Brood chamber
Medium 8 frame Brood chamber
1st slatted rack
Screened Bottom Board

I then pull a super when its full and replace it. 7 boxes high is as high as I allow or can handle with my disabilities.

AllanJ · May 13, 2007, 08:21:09 AM

How does the 2nd Slatted rack work as a queen excluder? Won't the bees build comb up to the rack or do you turn it up side down and have the rack close to the top of the brood box? Are you using your own or the one from betterbee?

Thanks!

Zoot · May 13, 2007, 03:01:14 PM

Allan,

I have my hives set up exactly as Brian has described, with excellent results so far regarding ALL levels of management (superb environment for brood, honey production, ventilation, mite control, etc).

The top slatted rack - I initially had only Brian's word for it - appears to create a void that the queen is not comfortable crossing, while allowing all other bees easy access to the top area. I have never had burr comb build up there and I confess to being curious about that. Otherwise it's a top notch arrangement. 7 mediums is quite high but, due to what appears to be a spectacular flow that we are starting to experience here I envision possibly going as high as 8.

Additionally, I am convinced that the slatted rack is a major aid in reducing swarming.

Zoot · May 13, 2007, 03:02:59 PM

Also - my racks (made per the dbray method I believe) are symetrical in construction; there is no top or bottom.

AllanJ · May 14, 2007, 07:50:08 AM

Do you have pics of the rack? Interesting that they do not burr the stuffing out of it..

Zoot · May 14, 2007, 01:42:05 PM

You know, every time this subject comes up some one asks - quite naturally - for a photo. I am an indifferent photographer but keep meaning to get around to it. Maybe Brian can post a sketch?

Here's the basic conception: make a simple Imirie shim - mine are 1 3/4" high. Install 1" dowells length-wise so that they are directly under your frames (8 frames = 8 dowels, etc). Unlike commercially made types, there is no top or bottom, no front or back. Also, with the round dowels you have the added advantage (over the square slats) of even more space for clustering and a surface that may enhance mite fall even further.

AllanJ · May 14, 2007, 06:22:06 PM

That does not sound too difficult to make.. especially if you put the 2 ends together and then drill the 1" hole all the way through both ends. Would make lining them up easy. The dowells will close up the holes and make it more sturdy than if you only drilled rest hole on the inside. And the top slatted rack can be used as a top entrance too.. nice.

Zoot · May 15, 2007, 01:53:32 AM

You could certainly make them that way. Just make sure you seal the end grain of the dowels as most commercial dowel stock is made from crap quality wood that will suck moisture. I make everything from cedar and don't bother with paint, sealers, etc.

I've also drilled entrance holes in mine ( for use in the upper location, not the lower) but I only keep them open during extremely hot weather or while a flow is in progress. During the very hot weather we had last year which also coincided with a dearth I made additional shims - not slatted racks, just simple shims - with screened vents in the front, back and sides. This appeared to aid ventilation and helped minimize the robbing that I was experiencing at the time.

Brian D. Bray · May 16, 2007, 11:48:39 PM

Zoot,

Thanks you explained that all very well. Maybe with your testimony people won't think I'm such a crack pot. I use the methods I do because they work. I began beekeeping in 1959 at the age of 11 so I think I have a right to my conclusions. If you want to get the most production out of a hive of bees use the set up I discribed and then find good foraging areas.
I have had a single hive produce over 300 lbs of honey using my management technics. I call that success. Do I have research to back it up? No, I haven't bothered to write it down.
Research, after all, is just documented experience.

AllanJ · May 17, 2007, 07:52:26 AM

What sold me initially on SR's is the pictures from Tillie's blog... Mass bearding on the front.. add SR.. bearding gone. I personally think they are a great idea and really like the thought of using a home made SR between the brood and honey boxes. Hope you guys take a few pictures when you can..