Different types of Queen cells

Mklangelo · May 11, 2007, 11:58:01 AM

To my understanding, there are two types. Emergency and Natural. The Emergency cells contain a Larva which has been "converted" to a queen, the earlier the better. These cells are larger and downward pointing.

The Natural cells are more rounded, but still much larger than a normal brood cell. These contain Eggs which were converted. As I understand it, this is preferable.

Is this correct?

Mici · May 11, 2007, 01:18:55 PM

ermmm...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

anyway, emergency is still natural, the problem with emergency cells is, that they're made from ordinary cells, like you've said, but it's not the improper age of larvae that presents a problem, it's the fact that..the larvae slides down the cell when it grows and so can not reach the food in the cell.
i'm not sure i described it well but..ah read it, and look at the cells, you should get the image

Mklangelo · May 11, 2007, 04:21:34 PM

Quote from: Mici on May 11, 2007, 01:18:55 PM
ermmm...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenrearing.htm

anyway, emergency is still natural, the problem with emergency cells is, that they're made from ordinary cells, like you've said, but it's not the improper age of larvae that presents a problem, it's the fact that..the larvae slides down the cell when it grows and so can not reach the food in the cell.
i'm not sure i described it well but..ah read it, and look at the cells, you should get the image

thanks for the post Mici,

"The Hive and the Honey Bee" describes the two types that way. When they say "Natural" they mean that the bees weren't in an absolute emergency situation cause by disease or sudden injury to her Majesty and there is time to create the queen from the earlier egg stage.

When they say Emergency, it's well you know...

Shizzell · May 11, 2007, 04:45:03 PM

Recently I split a hive, in this split I gave them 1 frame of eggs, and 2 frames of brood. (I didn't give them a queen) The split did not use any of the eggs right away, so I was slightly concerned. However, they took some larvae and created what you say as "emergency" queen cells with the non-capped larvae.

Jake

Mklangelo · May 11, 2007, 05:12:42 PM

Quote from: Shizzell on May 11, 2007, 04:45:03 PM
Recently I split a hive, in this split I gave them 1 frame of eggs, and 2 frames of brood. (I didn't give them a queen) The split did not use any of the eggs right away, so I was slightly concerned. However, they took some larvae and created what you say as "emergency" queen cells with the non-capped larvae.

Jake

I don't understand why they didn't use the eggs. Perhaps when they recognized they were queenless, they took the shortest route to a queen, ie; using a larva.

Mici · May 11, 2007, 05:19:32 PM

they don't use eggs, they use very very young larvae..i mean, they tare down cell walls and make it an emergency queen cell around a very young larvae, they don't like prepare the whole thing and then wait for the egg to hatch.

Mklangelo · May 11, 2007, 05:26:01 PM

Quote from: Mici on May 11, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
they don't use eggs, they use very very young larvae..i mean, they tare down cell walls and make it an emergency queen cell around a very young larvae, they don't like prepare the whole thing and then wait for the egg to hatch.

On page 993 of "The Hive And The Honey Bee" 1992 revision is says:

"Successors to superceded and swarmed queens are reared from eggs that were laid in queen cell cups that open downward and which were made by bees at various places on the brood combs..."

"Replacements for queens that were lost are reared from young larvae in worker cells at various places on brood combs."

(From Harry H. Laidlaw, Jr. 1979. Contemporary Queen Rearing.)

The queen cells I have are opening downward which would be supercession type

Mici · May 11, 2007, 05:34:52 PM

ugh, you're right, it's like...when a queen agrees to raise another queen, that queen is laid inside that cell, but when bees rear a queen they use the larvae..
so..the split he made, did not use an egg but larvae.

Brian D. Bray · May 12, 2007, 11:37:18 PM

There are really three types of queen cells: swarm, supercedure, and emergency. Swarm cells will be made in the greastest in number and usually found on the bottoms or ends of frames, supercedure cells are few in number usually located along the mid plane of the frame amoungst the normal brood cells, true emergency cells will be of varied sizes and quantity and located almost anywhere.

Supercedure and swarm cells are usually done with some planing. Emergency cells are the result of a crisis within the hive. In the case of Swarm and Supercedure cells a downward facing cup is usually created first and the egg is then laid in the cup. The cell is then built out as the larvae develops. With an emergency cell the bees will use any larvae of the approximate age for development and build the cages wherever the egg/larvae is found, the resultant shape of the cell is not uniform.

Michael Bush · May 13, 2007, 01:08:43 AM

>I don't understand why they didn't use the eggs. Perhaps when they recognized they were queenless, they took the shortest route to a queen, ie; using a larva.

They always take the shortest route to a queen and use larvae. From removing a queen (or a queenless split or a killed queen) to eggs is 24 days. From an egg to eggs is 28 days.