swapping boxes ?

Kathyp · May 24, 2007, 02:32:25 PM

this is the continuing story of the hive that won't move up.

a couple of weeks ago, i gave this hive 4 frames of drawn and undrawn foundation because they were not moving up and working the (to big) starter strips. i figured it would give them the idea to work the 2nd box. it did not.

today i checked this hive again. the upper box shows a very little work done, but no sign of the queen using it. bottom is packed with pollen, honey, and brood. keeping in mind my limited experience, i think this queen is ok. no better than ok. since she won't move up, i figured maybe she'd move down. i swapped the boxes.

this will be a bit of a pain because i'll have to pull the upper box to see if they are making progress in the lower box. i couldn't think of anything else to try.

ok plan?

Mici · May 24, 2007, 02:41:46 PM

Quote from: kathyp on May 24, 2007, 02:32:25 PM
this will be a bit of a pain because i'll have to pull the upper box to see if they are making progress in the lower box. i couldn't think of anything else to try.

ok plan?

maybe putting a frame or two of brood in the other box to encourage them to move but...again wait till the more experienced reply.

Ross · May 24, 2007, 03:03:51 PM

How is your flow right now? I would leave them alone for awhile and feed if you don't have a strong flow.

Kathyp · May 24, 2007, 03:53:18 PM

i didn't move brood because i didn't want to break up brood nest and nites are still pretty cool.

flow has slowed a tiny bit, but blackberries will bloom this week and flow will be very strong.

i don't intend to even check on them again for another week or so. by then, i hope to be able to see if switch was a good idea.

on + note, bees in other hive are building strips and have moved up with no problem.

Jerrymac · May 24, 2007, 04:14:27 PM

Have to ask. Is there a honey cap above the brood? That is at the top of the brood comb there is honey stored? I heard the queen doesn't normally move up over a honey cap. But yes she probably will move down. Then again are there enough bees to keep any more brood warm on your cold nights? That could be why they are staying close to the brood area also.

Kathyp · May 24, 2007, 04:20:51 PM

yes there is honey over most of the brood frames. also pollen packed in on some frames. i'll have to go back and look at that more closely. i was only paying attention to the brood pattern and the fact that all ten frames are pretty much full of stuff. all 10 frames are also packed with bees. there are plenty to fill two boxes. i just don't understand why they won't go up and do it.

the other box has about the same number of bees, but they are busy working above and below.

Jerrymac · May 24, 2007, 04:25:30 PM

They aren't union workers are they? :-D

Kathyp · May 24, 2007, 04:39:18 PM

i hadn't thought about that :-). they are on strike. i thought, since we are profit sharing, they'd work a little harder!

doak · May 24, 2007, 05:11:36 PM

Do you have all starter strips in the top box? If so take the two center frames out and replace with full foundation and see if that will move them up. just a thought.
doak

Kathyp · May 24, 2007, 05:25:08 PM

already done. i took some of the drawn foundation i had and swapped it for strips. also took a couple of frames from bottom and moved up. still no go. there are huge numbers of bees working from that hive. i figure they will start using the bottom if they have to pass it to go to the top and the queen ( i hope) will move down.....

has anyone ever had this happen?

doak · May 24, 2007, 05:41:16 PM

the swarm I caaught Easter week, I had only one deep, the swarm was a big one and I put what I had on.
3 mediums and a shallow. With the deep on bottom.
It was a week to the day when I first checked it. The medium, 3rd from bottom was half full of brood, and they had started capping the fourth, with the fith half full of honey. I added two more supers and last week took two medium supers of honey off it.
Like I said it was the biggest swarm I've ever seen, and I was luck to have drawn to put them in.
I have not looked any lower than the third box from the bottom. When I tooked the two boxes of honey, the brood had not moved up any more, but I added an excluder anyhow.
I don't know if they went up to the third to start with or not, if not, and they started on bottom that is some "QUEEN"
doak

Brian D. Bray · May 24, 2007, 11:52:49 PM

KathyP,

I've had the same experience a number of times over the years. Swapping the boxes should solve the problem. The only probelm I see is that you might have to put your next super in between the 2 already there in order to get them to work on it. I would suggest spraying the strips with syrup before putting it on the hive. The smell of the syrup should help drawn them up to "harvest" the syrup at 1st and then to start drawing the comb. If they are still reluctant then spray with syrup again. After a few times they should get the idea.

Michael Bush · May 25, 2007, 11:02:50 AM

If the bottom box is full of bees and brood they should soon get crowded enough that they have to move up. A couple of frames of brood (as already mentioned) moved up will force this sooner if you really like.

Kathyp · May 25, 2007, 11:11:46 AM

don't a lot of people add their second suppers under their first? i was thinking that by swapping the boxes, i'd be doing no different. i didn't move brood because our nites are still cool, in the 40's, and i didn't want to break up a nice brood nest. on the other hand, i was afraid that if they didn't move up, they'd swarm.

let me know if you think this was a bad choice, but now that i have done it, i am going to leave it be. after the switch, they were working well and didn't seem to upset by the rearrangement.

Shizzell · May 25, 2007, 01:58:46 PM

kathyp - that may be the reason why they aren't expanding the hive a lot. If the nights get down to the 40's they may start to group together for warmth, and then not a lot gets done in the night.

Hives won't usually swarm if it gets below 50 degrees at night.

Jake

Kathyp · May 25, 2007, 02:18:23 PM

Quotekathyp - that may be the reason why they aren't expanding the hive a lot. If the nights get down to the 40's they may start to group together for warmth, and then not a lot gets done in the night.

that may be, although the other hive is working both boxes well. we'll see. this hives behavior may be the reason this queen does not appear to be as good. she is laying in all available spaces, but they are not creating more space for her. i guess this is one of those learning things. i'll check on them again in a week or so and see if i can give a report. :-)

KONASDAD · May 25, 2007, 03:09:40 PM

I had similar problem w/ both of mine recently. One hive I resolved by taking two frames where the honey barrier existed, moved them towards the outside of same box, replaced missing frames w/ new foundation, and spread out brood chamber w/ these two frames. Above deep, I placed empty foundation, w/ two frames of anything but brood from below, but above brood chamber. This worked for one hive. Other hive needed some stimulation w/ feeding of sugar water. I think I was between minor flows and a little inducement was enough to make'em work.

Brian D. Bray · May 25, 2007, 10:20:42 PM

KathyP,

Nights still in the 40's? You really need to get your bees out of the shadows of Mount Hood and put them in a warmer spot. I know, I know, the view of Mount Hood is soooo pretty.

BTW my youngest daughter is moving down you way next month to Gresham, She works at Freddies.

Kathyp · May 25, 2007, 10:27:59 PM

they are in the sun :-(.

let me know when she's coming down. i can pm you some contact info in case her car breaks down or something :-)

tillie · May 25, 2007, 11:40:21 PM

You know, I have three hives -

one is going great guns with the starter strips and building up;
one is not that interested but can be persuaded with a frame of foundation interspersed with starter strips;
and then there's my crazy comb building hive - a rowdy bunch who can't quite get the hang of it. Every time I open the hive I have to straighten up a comb or two with rubber bands and every time I keep trying to convince them to move into the starter strip box, but they won't work with foundation interspersed, or anything. They went on strike when I gave them comb remnants from cut comb from last year

......."you never can tell with bees." as wise Winnie Ther Pooh said.

Linda T in Atlanta