Why not regular fumings of oxalic?

[little john]

But for me, one BIG question remains with regard to this issue ... if you're not going to treat with OA - then what are you going to do ?  Not treat ?
LJ

Yes of course.  That is what was done for millions of years and worked perfectly.  Now how is a test of twenty years going to match up to millions?  If you have faith in 20 years why don't you have faith in millions?

Because during those millions of years Natural Selection created a situation of geographical isolation - where the Varroa mite and Apis Cerana developed a mutually acceptable parasite-host relationship, geographically separated from Apis Meliifera.  Who knows how many thousands or millions of years it took for that relationship to develop ?  And then along came Homo Sapiens with his obsession with "more-and-more" and "better-and-better" (undefined) - who thinks he can outsmart Nature ...

And so bees from distant regions began to be imported to fuel Man's obsession - and we now know only too well the rest of the story.

I respect Michael Bush's track record with regard to non-treatment - but it hasn't worked for me.  Many moons ago I tried not treating, and several hives quickly went down with DWV - and believe me, that's a pitiful sight for anyone to see.  But, a few well-timed blasts of OAV, and they were up and running again.  So no - I won't be trying non-treatment again.

Perhaps MB doesn't have a source of DW Virus near his apiaries ?  Seems I might well have.

LJ

[Michael Bush]

>Perhaps MB doesn't have a source of DW Virus near his apiaries ?

or perhaps not treating allows the less virulent form of DWV to take over...
http://www.nzbees.net/threads/varroa-resistant-survivors.7066/

or perhaps i have a lot less Varroa because of cell size...

[Acebird]

  Many moons ago I tried not treating, and several hives quickly went down with DWV - and believe me, that's a pitiful sight for anyone to see.

Yes, Nature can be cruel but if you don't get rid of the gene pool that is making the bees susceptible to varroa then how can the bees ever survive getting weaker and weaker?  What is your feeling after 20 years of oxalic acid?  Is the varroa problem getting worse or better (beekeeper point of view)?  Worse, about the same, or better, which way will it go in the future?  The approval in the US will certainly increase the usage.

[iddee]

The people expect  the link to stays Blue (contrasting color) all the time. Not just when you move the cursor over it . There are no cursor on a mobile phone or a tablet that I know of. I  hope this helps you out.




                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Check it out now, Jim, and tell me if it's better on the mobile units.
Thanks again for the feed back.

[Jim134]

Check it out now, Jim, and tell me if it's better on the mobile units.
Thanks again for the feed back.

iddee
You have links on my tablet and cell telephone are still black May 2nd Time 7:15 PM. Still no contrast of color text as same color  as the link . Remember phones don't have curses they are touch screen. The same is true for a tablets. I do hope you can figure out your problem.


               BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[iddee]

Jim, they were changed to orange yesterday, which was too bright, so changed to purple today. It is permanent, not just when you hover over them. Maybe some of the other mobile users can chime in and tell us what color the links are. It may be that you need to remove cookies before it changes, I don't know.

[salvo]

Where the heck is Finsky when you really need him?

Salvo

[little john]

> if you're not going to treat with OA - then what are you going to do ?  Not treat ?

That's what I've been doing for the last 13 years and for 39 of the last 42 years...

Michael - as you've kindly given some figures - can I just check with you what these figures actually mean in terms of the Varroa mite population in your apiaries ? 

Do these figures mean that for much of this time the apiaries have actually been Varroa-free ?  Or is it that during much of this time a Varroa population has still been present, but that it has been reduced to a level that bees can cope with, without showing signs of distress or Varroa-related disease ?

Thanks, LJ

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beescerts.htm

I lost them all to Varroa several times in the 90s before I went to natural comb and small cell.  They are certainly not Varroa free.  No bees in North America are.

[Jim134]

Jim, they were changed to orange yesterday, which was too bright, so changed to purple today. It is permanent, not just when you hover over them. Maybe some of the other mobile users can chime in and tell us what color the links are. It may be that you need to remove cookies before it changes, I don't know.

iddee
   Did clean the cache ..Works great I see a magenta color real close to purple. There a lot of contrast. Glad you got it figured out. Thanks for the idea of clean the cache that is the same as cookies. On this smartphone and tablet are both on Android platform.

     I'd like to make a suggestion. I don't know how you would do it but anybody's been to your site before on a mobile device to see the contrast . Of the links They are going to have to clean the  cache I believe. I had to do it to my telephone and to my tablet . Also they may have to clean the cache or cookies on any touch screen devices.  So they will be able to see the contrast of the links

                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Acebird]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thermosolar-hive-healthy-bees-healthy-honey--5#/

Well this puts a different slant on things ... 100% varroa kill by the sun.  How about it LJ?

[GSF]

Jim, you might could post a question concerning your phone/laptop/or what ever in the "Computer Tech Help" on here. There's some bright folks in there.

I still have the flip phone...

[GSF]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thermosolar-hive-healthy-bees-healthy-honey--5#/

Well this puts a different slant on things ... 100% varroa kill by the sun.  How about it LJ?

Sounds too good to be true - not saying it's not. Does anyone know of someone or has anyone had any experience with this? Isn't the 104 outside the bee's comfort zone?

[iddee]

Thanks for the help, Jim. I guess we can quit hijacking this thread now

[Jim134]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thermosolar-hive-healthy-bees-healthy-honey--5#/

Well this puts a different slant on things ... 100% varroa kill by the sun.  How about it LJ?

Sounds too good to be true - not saying it's not. Does anyone know of someone or has anyone had any experience with this? Isn't the 104 outside the bee's comfort zone?

         I know when I was in Peace Corps in North Africa. The temperature get up to a 100-115 F on a regular basis in the summertime. yes I was a beekeeper and the Bees use did use a lot of water.
        I also know there was not many Varroa Mites on bees at this temperature they were a lot on the comb and the side walls of the hive. The local beekeepers took advantage of this. What they would do about an hour before sunset. They would get a plastic sheet the same size as the bottom board. And would cover it with olive oil. And they would get up in the morning before sunrise and pull a piece of plastic out.

              BEE HAPPY Jim 134 

[sc-bee]

Thanks for the help, Jim. I guess we can quit hijacking this thread now

Glad that's straightened out 

[little john]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thermosolar-hive-healthy-bees-healthy-honey--5#/

Well this puts a different slant on things ... 100% varroa kill by the sun.  How about it LJ?

A good sales-pitch - but as a method, it's a total waste of time.  Even if it produces a 100% mite kill - it's still a waste of time, because it doesn't actually solve the problem - it just puts it off for a while.  I'll start another thread to expand on this - as these sorts of innovative ideas (although clever) fail to address the bigger picture.

LJ

[OldMech]

ALL natural cell hives with "supposed" resistant queens from multiple sources had a MUCH higher number of mites to the hives I had 18 miles from them. Believing that they MIGHT be able to kick in resistance, I left those hives alone. The wax moth sure appreciated that.   I have tried three times.. 7 hives, 12 hives and 9 hives...   The fourth test is underway with different bees. Only four hives as I am beginning to lose hope. As of last week, the mite levels are 6.6 times as high as the level of the mites in my home and other yards that get treated.. I keep hoping that small cell natural cell thing will work when combined with resistant bees, and I keep losing hives..  I WILL keep trying as long as I can find different strains of "resistant" bees to try, but the hope is beginning to fade.

   The commercial OA Vaporizor pictured is being used in several large apiaries that i know of, and one package production apiary that i know of..   Walk up, blow the vapor in, move to the next hive.   The price of it is still a bit high for my liking.. I built a cart, with a gas motor, a one wire GM Alternator and a deep cycle battery, and run two vaporizors..   Works out at just about the right amount of time so that i can roll along pretty smoothly..   My palleted hives were built with the correct sized opening JUST to fit the vaporizor..   At this point, the cost of OA and ease of use is a blessing..   Having bees that would survive would be a bigger blessing...  Takes a long day to treat all the hives this way.

[rookie2531]

But for me, one BIG question remains with regard to this issue ... if you're not going to treat with OA - then what are you going to do ?  Not treat ?
LJ

Yes of course.  That is what was done for millions of years and worked perfectly.  Now how is a test of twenty years going to match up to millions?  If you have faith in 20 years why don't you have faith in millions?

Well it wasn't even 50 years ago, that nobody in the States even had mites on their bees, so the time factor doesn't apply here.

Also, I am at odds with what is going on with this anti treatment attitude towards bees. But the same people that have this attitude would not say, hey, only my dogs that can resist flees should survive and all my dogs that get infested and overwhelmed shall die and that will be better for the survival of the species. Or, deny those injections for their cattle, horses, chickens and all their other animals, to keep them healthy and alive. I just do not understand the difference.

[cao]

Also, I am at odds with what is going on with this anti treatment attitude towards bees. But the same people that have this attitude would not say, hey, only my dogs that can resist flees should survive and all my dogs that get infested and overwhelmed shall die and that will be better for the survival of the species. Or, deny those injections for their cattle, horses, chickens and all their other animals, to keep them healthy and alive. I just do not understand the difference.

I don't know if I am one that you are at odds with since I have never treated my bees(and don't plan on treating).  I can understand what you are saying but I disagree with some of it.  I the problem is not necessarily whether you treat or not. It is the overtreating or unnecessary treating that is the real problem.   

Why not regular fumings of oxalic?  That was the original question.  Would you regularly inject your cattle, horses, chickens and all your other animals even if they didn't need it?  Do you decide or do you have a vet make that decision?  I don't know many beeks that are as qualified as a vet.  Yet they are treating with chemicals that they know little or nothing about.  You could even go farther and say what about all the medications that us humans take all the time that is unnecessary.  Do you take an aspirin everyday because you might get a headache?

There was another post on here where a new beek was told by the beek that sold them their nuc that they needed to treat there nuc in a few weeks.  There is the problem.  The treatment of bees that may or may not need it.