cells?

Janemma · May 17, 2008, 12:33:19 AM

Can someone tell me what the two white cells are on my frame please? The two larger ones to the right of the rame in the picture? Nota great picture but the best I have of the cells I am asking about thanks. This is day 6 after installing the package. Thanks.

HAB · May 17, 2008, 12:49:27 AM

Looks like the start of a couple of Queen Cells (Swarm Cells) to me, but I'm still new at this too. :)

annette · May 17, 2008, 12:51:43 AM

Look like queen cups to me. May not mean anything yet. They could be getting ready to supercede the queen, or maybe they just made these cups and it will go no further.

What does anyone else think???

Janemma · May 17, 2008, 01:12:38 AM

Oh thanks Annette - whether it is that or not, you've mentioned something that I had not heard or read about before!!! I just looked 'Queen Cups' up!!! Something new I learned today!!!

I didn't spot the Queens in either hive today. All looked well and the bees had been busy - the only thing that concerned me was these two odd looking cells in hive 2. We didn't see any eggs or larva anywhere either though - or burr comb - everything was so neat but the bees had drawn a lot of comb on the frames and have started to bring in pollen now finally. Is no burr comb something to worry about? I thought every hive would have some....but my hives were immaculate but they had drawn on about 5 frames in each hive.

With not seeing the Queens (mine are not marked) should I be more concerned about these Queen cups or just relax about it and let the bees continue as they are...they seem to be usy about their business....I will check in a few days again and see if I can see any eggs.....

annette · May 17, 2008, 01:33:36 AM

Queen cups are something the bees do all the time and it mostly does not go any further. Queen cells are something different. They are the peanut looking things that already have a larvae inside and are sealed up.

After only 6 days of having this package, it is too soon to see anything. There are probably eggs already in the cells, but you cannot see them yet until you are trained to find them.

Do not worry about anything now. I think you need to give them time.

Take Care
Annette

MrILoveTheAnts · May 17, 2008, 01:55:08 AM

Why are they storing pollen so close to the brood? My understanding was they build cells and the queen will lay slower as the workers start building up food on the outside.

How are you ruling out a drone cell?

Joseph Clemens · May 17, 2008, 04:09:18 AM

Quote from: MrILoveTheAnts on May 17, 2008, 01:55:08 AM
Why are they storing pollen so close to the brood? My understanding was they build cells and the queen will lay slower as the workers start building up food on the outside.

How are you ruling out a drone cell?

There is almost always a band of pollen between the brood and honey. The queen cell cups in the photo that opens this thread, are just as has already been described. Drone cells are hexagonal like worker brood cells, only larger. Queen cells starting with queen cell cups, are the only brood cells that are unique in several ways, very different from cells used to raise workers and drones.

BMBeeFarm · May 17, 2008, 08:47:48 AM

I'd be looking for a queen supplier.

MrILoveTheAnts · May 17, 2008, 01:11:43 PM

Quote from: Joseph Clemens on May 17, 2008, 04:09:18 AM
Quote from: MrILoveTheAnts on May 17, 2008, 01:55:08 AM
Why are they storing pollen so close to the brood? My understanding was they build cells and the queen will lay slower as the workers start building up food on the outside.

How are you ruling out a drone cell?
There is almost always a band of pollen between the brood and honey. The queen cell cups in the photo that opens this thread, are just as has already been described. Drone cells are hexagonal like worker brood cells, only larger. Queen cells starting with queen cell cups, are the only brood cells that are unique in several ways, very different from cells used to raise workers and drones.

Thank you, now I understand.

Janemma · May 17, 2008, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: BMBeeFarm on May 17, 2008, 08:47:48 AM
I'd be looking for a queen supplier.

Could you say why........just from going by everyone elses answers - as in to wait and see....I am wondering why you say to requeen.

Brian D. Bray · May 17, 2008, 11:13:13 PM

Quote from: Janemma on May 17, 2008, 01:15:01 PM
Quote from: BMBeeFarm on May 17, 2008, 08:47:48 AM
I'd be looking for a queen supplier.

Could you say why........just from going by everyone elses answers - as in to wait and see....I am wondering why you say to requeen.

Some beekeepers were taught (incorrectly, IMO) to solve every problem by getting a new queen. That's matracide not beekeeping. I see you are using plastic foundation--that tells me alot about how your bees will progress. Bees reared on wood can refuse to work plastic to the point of swarming rather than building comb. Queens often hesitate to lay in plastic. Plastic foundation creates some very unique experiences where comb building is concerned. Some bees just like to have a queen cup available at all times. They make them, tear them out, and rebuild in a different place on the same comb or a different frame entirely. Usually you don't see queen cups being drawn before the comb is fully drawn on a frame but the plastic foundation maybe throwing the bees off and they're blaming the queen.

At this point wait and see is the best option--if they cap it, then decide what to do.

DayValleyDahlias · May 17, 2008, 11:31:46 PM

Well I am still a new bee, but after I installed my packages, I did not disturb the hive for 10 days. When I opened things up I found the marked queens but "thought" I saw eggs. White mini eggs on a white backround was tricky. I just took some deep breaths and 2 weeks after installation, I checkd and there was capped brood...Now they are going full tilt boogie...

Just give them some alone time ;)

Janemma · May 18, 2008, 12:28:25 AM

Thank you.... :)

yes. I think wait and see seems to be my best option. Patience has never been one of my strongest points but I think this is what I am going to opt for. I will leave them until next weekend and then check them again and hope to see some evidence of the Queen and some eggs. We finally have some pollen in the area so the little bees can fend for themselves at last and they seem to no longer need the sugar syrup which is a good sign :)

Thanks for the reassurance yet again. You all seem to have a lot more patience then me :)

BMBeeFarm · May 18, 2008, 06:50:09 AM

I said to get a new queen because this is a new package and you said you could not find the queen. Probably there isn't a live one in there. Wait as long as you want, your bees. I just gave my opinion. But you know what those are like. I have had the exact same thing happen, it's the queen.

Janemma · May 18, 2008, 01:50:00 PM

Quote from: BMBeeFarm on May 18, 2008, 06:50:09 AM
I said to get a new queen because this is a new package and you said you could not find the queen. Probably there isn't a live one in there. Wait as long as you want, your bees. I just gave my opinion. But you know what those are like. I have had the exact same thing happen, it's the queen.

It's common for an inexperienced newbie not to spot an unmarked Queen though - and very unlikely for both Queens in both hives to be dead I would think. The bees aren't showing any signs of being Queenless (from what I have read at least). You may end up being right but I think I will give the bees time to do what bees do. Another week and then we can see what is happening. If I end up having to requeen in both hives then so be it, but at least I will have given them the time needed to adjust to everything first. They seem to be doing really well otherwise. Maybe I just haven't seen the eggs yet. I'm going to buy some of the glasses everyone mentions today and have another look in better light.

doak · May 18, 2008, 07:01:03 PM

Looks like the beginning of super cedeure cells to me.
I know eggs are hard to see on that white plastic.
Have you been able to see any eggs and/ or young brood?
I see white spots in the bottom of some cells, Is that light reflecting or eggs?
If it is light reflecting why isn't in "all" the cells?
doak

Michael Bush · May 18, 2008, 07:18:49 PM

>Look like queen cups to me. May not mean anything yet.

Ditto.

JP · May 18, 2008, 08:37:53 PM

For everyone using or wanting to buy and use plastic foundation, remember this, you can buy it with or without the wax coating, its a no brainer, buy the wax coated. The bees will like you better.

...JP

Janemma · May 18, 2008, 08:45:36 PM

Quote from: JP on May 18, 2008, 08:37:53 PM
For everyone using or wanting to buy and use plastic foundation, remember this, you can buy it with or without the wax coating, its a no brainer, buy the wax coated. The bees will like you better.

...JP

This was wax coated but even the wax coated is only thin coated.....I bought extra wax and melted it down...then painted that on the frames to give an extra thick coating of wax for the bees to draw on....I think it really helped and the bees have drawn really well on the frames in the first week.

Janemma · May 18, 2008, 08:58:01 PM

Quote from: doak on May 18, 2008, 07:01:03 PM
Looks like the beginning of super cedeure cells to me.
I know eggs are hard to see on that white plastic.
Have you been able to see any eggs and/ or young brood?
I see white spots in the bottom of some cells, Is that light reflecting or eggs?
If it is light reflecting why isn't in "all" the cells?
doak

We didn't really look properly for brood or eggs - we did the inspection in the evening (we have had such bad weather that the only time we could inspect was in the evening at 8pm when the wind had died down one evening. 60km winds this week have kept us out of the hives) so we didn't stay in long and just wanted to check through the hive and look to see the Queens had been released and the bees were drawing comb on the frames etc.....we looked for the Queens but didn't spot them...light wasn't ideal really but we didn't focus on looking for eggs anyway.

Those 'cups' have pollen in them I notice - would that be normal for supercedure cells?