weird looking cells

Shanevrr · May 05, 2011, 09:36:03 PM

are these drone cells?, they look differant than others, they have a raised dome shape

wd · May 05, 2011, 09:56:27 PM

yes, drone.

hankdog1 · May 05, 2011, 10:02:10 PM

correct it also is a sign you can start grafting queens :-D

Shanevrr · May 05, 2011, 10:12:30 PM

why does one hive them and not the other 3?

BjornBee · May 05, 2011, 10:53:24 PM

Shane,

I would pay particular attention to this hive.

While I can not measure the cell size, most healthy, planned, and normal drones, are raised in dedicated drone cells. Anytime you have bees raising drones in worker cells, it is a sign of concern. This is not normal. And it also means the drones will be smaller and perhaps not something you want to be passing onto any queens. It is not a sign to start grafting.

It is a sign of possible queen failure or other problems.

Shanevrr · May 05, 2011, 11:34:55 PM

I have extra queen thats still caged, going on its third week if you can believe that. should I replaced her? shes still alive and kicking, but dought she will not last long im sure.

one of my hives is so strong that i had to add a deep on top. weird things going on

iddee · May 05, 2011, 11:36:14 PM

If that is one of four hives you recently started, then BJ is correct. You have a problem. Either a new queen not fertilizing all eggs, or a poorly mated queen. Yes, I would replace her.

Shanevrr · May 05, 2011, 11:42:35 PM

any suggestions on how i go about doing this? Do I just kill old queen and put new one in hive with candied cage like first time?

iddee · May 05, 2011, 11:54:57 PM

YES....

hankdog1 · May 06, 2011, 12:58:54 AM

BjornBee could also be a laying worker if it's all drone brood. Yes drone brood is a sign of time you can graft queens and should be drone brood in all the hives this time of year in VA. I won't argue with you about how good or bad the drones will be cause most drones beekeepers raise are shotty at best and least to shotty queens. Not most beekeepers fault they just don't know that putting coumaphos into the hives does besides kill mites. Which is probably also the reason you stay away from those treatments.

Shanevrr · May 06, 2011, 08:35:41 AM

so if im having a problem with queen why dont i see queen cells too?

sc-bee · May 06, 2011, 09:46:58 AM

Quote from: Shanevrr on May 06, 2011, 08:35:41 AM
so if im having a problem with queen why dont i see queen cells too?

The bees recognize the hive is not queenless ---- she may just be a poorly breed queen.

VolunteerK9 · May 06, 2011, 09:54:46 AM

Quote from: sc-bee on May 06, 2011, 09:46:58 AM
Quote from: Shanevrr on May 06, 2011, 08:35:41 AM
so if im having a problem with queen why dont i see queen cells too?

The bees recognize the hive is not queenless ---- she may just be a poorly breed queen.

Yup, in a laying worker hive the bees still see things going on as usual so no other preparations are made to supercede. I may be wrong, but if you have a drone laying queen, there wont be any viable eggs to make supercedure cells with (correct me if Im wrong)

The other problem I think you may have, is the 3 week caged queen. She may not perform at all either, but its worth a shot.

sc-bee · May 06, 2011, 12:33:52 PM

I was thinking the same on the three week caged queen. Three weeks you know of + the additional time she was in the cage before you received her.

But she is in hand so give her a try!

FRAMEshift · May 06, 2011, 01:54:54 PM

Quote from: VolunteerK9 on May 06, 2011, 09:54:46 AM
I may be wrong, but if you have a drone laying queen, there wont be any viable eggs to make supercedure cells with (correct me if Im wrong)

The photo above shows some worker brood as well as drone brood. This could just be a newly mated queen who hasn't had time to get it all right. One of our package hives this year balled the queen when we released her. They were very slow to draw comb. Now there is mostly drone brood but some worker brood. My guess is that there was a virgin queen already in the package and she is now mated and starting to get the hang of laying worker eggs. Time will tell.

As long as there is worker brood, there is hope. If the situation does not improve in a few weeks and the bees don't start a supersedure cell, then pinch the queen and let them raise a new queen or add a new mated queen.

If you have the resources, you could put that caged queen in a nuc with a few frames of bees and see if she can start a hive. If so, she can be your back-up queen.

VolunteerK9 · May 06, 2011, 02:32:41 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on May 06, 2011, 01:54:54 PM
Quote from: VolunteerK9 on May 06, 2011, 09:54:46 AM
I may be wrong, but if you have a drone laying queen, there wont be any viable eggs to make supercedure cells with (correct me if Im wrong)

If you have the resources, you could put that caged queen in a nuc with a few frames of bees and see if she can start a hive. If so, she can be your back-up queen.

But with you having only 4 freshly installed packages, I wouldnt continuously rob from Peter to pay Paul. Frame is right-at least you have some worker brood present, so the bees may decide to supercede with a few of those eggs.

Last year was my first year and I had similar problems with 2 out of 4 queens. If you are anything like me, you want all 4 to make it, as I had 2 decent hives and 2 crappy ones that should have been combined with the 2 decent ones. (I took several frames of brood out of the decent ones to help the crappy ones along)

Look up newspaper combine and if in a couple weeks they still arent up to snuff, I would combine.

iddee · May 06, 2011, 03:19:13 PM

There was recently a thread where a queen was accidentally left caged for 4 months. It said she went to laying normal when released.

Pinch the queen and install the caged one.

Tommyt · May 06, 2011, 09:06:15 PM

Its a given you build good Hive box's
Make a 3 frame Nuc,house that 3 week caged queen
My queen guy does all his in 3 frame med's
If you do this asap or sooner :) you will keep the 3 wk caged queen
Healthy and hopefully she can start laying
If the hive in Question goes bad all you need to do is combine
the 3 frame colony
With time short just build, don't stain nor paint,wait till all this is worked
out.Then you'll know if you'll have 5 hives or 4 Also in the future you
will have a small box made for emergencies like this :-D

Good Luck hope by the time you see this, your colony has turned for
the better

Tommyt

Shanevrr · May 06, 2011, 10:02:19 PM

Its a little confusing because there is lots of capped brood, larva. theres about 7 to 8 drawn comb frames and 2 to 3 full frames of capped brood.

You think i should wait a bit? I dont have a nuc or i would go ahead and use her.

FRAMEshift · May 06, 2011, 10:56:06 PM

Quote from: Shanevrr on May 06, 2011, 10:02:19 PM
Its a little confusing because there is lots of capped brood, larva. theres about 7 to 8 drawn comb frames and 2 to 3 full frames of capped brood.

You think i should wait a bit? I don't have a nuc or i would go ahead and use her.

If you have 2 to 3 frames of capped worker brood in a new package, you don't have a problem. Were you concerned because this hive had some drone cells while the others didn't? That could just be the sign of a healthy hive that has the resources to devote to some drone. Unless your drone cells represent the majority of all brood cells, I wouldn't worry. If it's 10-20% drone, that's totally normal.

Since you have a strong hive that you just added a deep to, I think you have the resources to make a nuc for the caged queen. I would focus on getting her established and let the "drone" hive fend for itself for awhile.