What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?

[The15thMember]

Inspected my Hive #1 and nuc today and now it is definitely time to merge. I moved stuff around in the main hive and had one frame of life that I put in the upper box, where I will put the nuc colony. My thoughts are to lift that box off, shake all bees off of that frame into the lower box, lay newspaper down and put the five frames of bees from the nuc plus the frame of brood that's there plus four frames of drawn come from my no longer needed swarm trap. That will fill everything up and give them room to store more honey. Mentor says that with paper merge, no waiting after killing queen is necessary. Wax moths have just started to set up camp in the swarm trap so those frames are in the freezer right now. Any corrections or advice are welcome.

All this sounds fine to me.

In addition to spotty brood in the main hive, I found something that my mentor says looks like European foul brood. In this picture, it's just below and left of center. He makes it sound like it's not a contagious phenomenon but I don't know. What should I do about this? He mentioned maybe calling our state bee inspector and have him come take a look.

EFB is absolutely contagious, although it is curable, but I wouldn't combine the hives until you are sure they are healthy.  I have never dealt with any brood disease so I can't speak to that with any degree of confidence.  My first thought was that those babies just look like they are starving to me, but my opinion counts for nothing here.  What is the rest of the brood like? 

[Terri Yaki]

What's the indication that they're starving? To me, they all look the same. What's the cure for the foul brood?

[The15thMember]

What's the cure for the foul brood?

Foulbrood is a bacterial disease.  A break in the brood cycle and feeding syrup can help the infection to clear up on its own, as can putting the bees into clean equipment.  I know people sometimes treat with the antibiotic oxytetracycline (brand name Terramycin) if an infestation is bad, but good luck getting your hands on antibiotics these days without a vet's prescription. 

The typical symptoms, again according to my book-learning only, are that the larvae die in twisted irregular positions, and lose their pearly white luster, turning cream and getting darker as they dry up.  The dead larvae may give the brood nest a bad odor, which most publications describe as "sour".   The bees have no trouble removing the dead larvae though, unlike the far worse AFB, where the dead larvae are sort of gummy and can be "roped out" with a toothpick or matchstick, something that won't happen with EFB. 

What's the indication that they're starving?

Bee larvae, especially the really little babies, should be essentially swimming in food.  I have arrows pointing to some of the very young larvae, and their cells are entirely dry.  The question is are those larvae dying from a lack of food?  Or are they not being fed because they are already dead?  I also circled the single larva that seems to be in a strange position and is probably dead, but that larva doesn't look off-color to me.  Some of the other older larvae are a little off-white, but it doesn't look too bad to me, and I have seen stressed larvae in starving colonies look a touch peaked before.  But again, I've never dealt with a brood disease, at least that I know of, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.       

[Terri Yaki]

Thanks for looking at this for me. I went out and went through the hive with a different perspective in mind. Sometimes I don't focus on the right things. First off, worker numbers are real low, none of the frames are fully covered in bees. Not all of the larvae look bad, just some and it looks like it's confined to one area. And while there is a super full of honey, there is  hardly any pollen stored and they're not hauling it in in the morning and my two other hives are. Should I try feeding them some pollen patty? From what I found, one site suggests adding healthy frames to the colony to give it more strength. Adding the nuc would do that. I did just start feeding them earlier this week but they're not guzzling it.

[The15thMember]

Okay, so the input they are lacking to feed the brood is pollen, not honey.  The real question is if this is actually EFB (or some other disease) or not.  If it's not, just combine the colonies and call it good.  To me, it feels like throwing good money after bad to feed them and bolster them with the nuc if this colony is already so depleted.  Although, you could combine them with the nuc, and if they do have something contagious, then you aren't exposing your full-sized colony to it.  It really boils down to if this colony is safe to combine with another, and I just don't have any experience with something like this.  Does anyone else have any opinions on what we're looking at here and what Terri's best course of action would be?   

[Lesgold]

Replaced a couple of bottom boards with the new ones that were made about two weeks ago. One hive that I looked into was pretty well full of brood. Time to add another box. I did notice 3 x supersedure queen cells on one frame. Looks like the old girls days are numbered.

[Ben Framed]

> Does anyone else have any opinions on what we're looking at here and what Terri's best course of action would be?

Sounds to me like the colony has possibly swarmed itself to death, leaving a short supply of bees, and a good chance it has since Terri has continued to feed; Even during the flow as I recall? This along with short supply of bees to make enough royal jelly would do it, creating dry brood; Even if you had enough pollen you have to have the bees to make royal jelly .  A lack of pollen here as well? If so adds to the story.. Is it possible the pollen stores were used up with so much feed combined with natural resources back when both were abundant and available. Were there a lot of bees back then? Was the colony thriving? If you will recall I suggested feeding pollen substitute as an aid, to go along with the feed and natural resources that were available, and explained why back when Terri revealed his intent to continue feeding the liquid during and 'after' the flow.. As I recall the advise was not heeded?

But it could be other things as well and of course these are only guesses, and I confess I 'gave up keeping up' with the specifics of the progress of Terris' hives 'reported within this topic' "What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?"

I doubt it is AFB or chalkboard looking at the picture as the dead brood is not sealed. Another thing it could be is sacbrood disease.
Calling your States Bee inspector for an inspection and insight may be a good option at this point in this case.....

These are just opinions and food for thought, there may be more to follow by others...

[Ben Framed]

Replaced a couple of bottom boards with the new ones that were made about two weeks ago. One hive that I looked into was pretty well full of brood. Time to add another box. I did notice 3 x supersedure queen cells on one frame. Looks like the old girls days are numbered.

Yep, Sally was a good ole gal! 

[Terri Yaki]

> Does anyone else have any opinions on what we're looking at here and what Terri's best course of action would be?

Sounds to me like the colony has possibly swarmed itself to death, leaving a short supply of bees, and a good chance it has since Terri has continued to feed; Even during the flow as I recall? This along with short supply of bees to make enough royal jelly would do it, creating dry brood; Even if you had enough pollen you have to have the bees to make royal jelly .  A lack of pollen here as well? If so adds to the story.. Is it possible the pollen stores were used up with so much feed combined with natural resources back when both were abundant and available. Were there a lot of bees back then? Was the colony thriving? If you will recall I suggested feeding pollen substitute as an aid, to go along with the feed and natural resources that were available, and explained why back when Terri revealed his intent to continue feeding the liquid during and 'after' the flow.. As I recall the advise was not heeded?

But it could be other things as well and of course these are only guesses, and I confess I 'gave up keeping up' with the specifics of the progress of Terris' hives 'reported within this topic' "What did you do in your Apiary/Bee yard today?"

I doubt it is AFB or chalkboard looking at the picture as the dead brood is not sealed. Another thing it could be is sacbrood disease.
Calling your States Bee inspector for an inspection and insight may be a good option at this point in this case.....

These are just opinions and food for thought, there may be more to follow by others...

I had time to think on this and think it through. There are definitely not enough bees to tend to what brood there is. During the heat wave, there was a brood break, which may have contributed to this problem. I never fed this hive anything until just this week. I have noticed that they were not bringing in pollen for a while now and my nuc isn't bringing in all that much either. However, my swarm hive has been hard at work all along and that is the only hive I've been feeding. The queen in the big hive is still there, would they have swarmed without her? I have not found any capped queen cells during any of my inspections, outside of the one that spawned my nuc, and I understand why that one happened.

So, here is where I stand. Big hive is short on workers and pollen. I'm guessing not enough of either to feed the brood. The nuc hive was doing well when I looked at it last week but I did not go into the brood box this week. It does not have any food stores either and I think that merging it with the big hive would be the end of both. The swarm hive seems to be functioning properly, the brood is in one ten frame deep and the upper box is a deep that they are storing nectar in, possibly all syrup nectar. I do have some pollen patties, should I give them some of those? Should I look to merge with the swarm hive rather than the nuc?

[Ben Framed]

> quoting Terri
Should I look to merge with the swarm hive rather than the nuc?

> quoting The15thMember
The real question is if this is actually EFB (or some other disease) or not.

I agree with Member.

As I suggested earlier, I doubt it is AFB or chalkboard looking at the picture as the dead brood is not sealed. Another thing it could be is sacbrood disease.
Adding The dead larva do not seem to have the dark color of EFB in the provided picture. (But that could be because they have not had enlightened time to do so?
So: Calling your States Bee inspector for an inspection and insight may be a good option at this point in this case.....

[Ben Framed]

One more question, (for now), didnt you get these weak hives from your mentor across the street?

[Terri Yaki]

I did put a call in to our local bee inspector yesterday, I probably won't hear from him until at least Tuesday. This hive was a nuc that I bought this spring. Sometime in June, after I manipulated some stuff around, they made a new queen and that's when I split them into a nuc box. About a month ago, my mentor and I tested this hive for mites and all looked good. Only got one mite. I have noticed that they were not bringing pollen in for a while now but I didn't recognize the significance of that. They were never short on space but they weren't filling all the frames with comb either. I crammed them into the deep and just left them with the full super on top. There is room in the brood box to fill with whatever they want. I gave them some 1:1 syrup a few days ago but they were slow to take it. I gave them more plus a cut of pollen patty to see if they have any interest in it and I reduced their entrance to prevent robbing. All summer I didn't find any intruders but this week I found a moth, a yellow jacket and a hive beetle in there. The yellow jacket might have flown in after I opened the hive, I don't know.

I did not get any bees from my neighbor.

[NigelP]

Doesn't really look like sac brood, you get these "slipper" shaped larvae (see centre of picture below). I've had a bout of it this season so have come across quite a few larvae looking like this. The circled larvae in Terri's picture looks melted, as do several of the others, which is very indicative of EFB . Healthy larvae should have nice well defined segments like the two near the right hand bees rear.
Bee inspector should be called for sure IMHO, there is something wrong here.
Also sterilise tools and gloves between individual hives when inspecting.

[beesnweeds]

Sounds to me like the colony has possibly swarmed itself to death, leaving a short supply of bees, and a good chance it has since Terri has continued to feed;

Seeing is better.  If you watched the mid August video the hive is in 2 deeps, a queen excluder, 2 mediums with very little drawn comb, few bees, a failing queen and supersedure cells.  Too much room too fast with a failing queen, on and off again feeding equals high stress.  If you research EFB one of the causes is high stress. 

[Terri Yaki]

I didn't feed/not feed this hive. I hadn't fed them until just this week. And I don't understand. I've been told to add a box when the current one is 60% or more capacity, which is what I did. And this crew has always built 'practice' queen cells for some reason so that didn't get my attention either. Now, this current spotty brood is another story, I don't recall seeing it like this before. If the brood was all tight, the workers would be better able to tend to it. Now, this morning, they are bringing in pollen. Not as much as one other hive but they are bringing it in, which makes me feel a little better. I texted my mentor and asked if he was available as I had questions and he responded that he's away for the weekend.    That's no reason he couldn't cut me five minutes on the phone.

[beesnweeds]

I didn't feed/not feed this hive. I hadn't fed them until just this week. And I don't understand. I've been told to add a box when the current one is 60% or more capacity, which is what I did.

Okay, I thought you were feeding them when you got them.  You need to feed a hive until its 2 fully drawn deeps when you get them.  Thats the goal for a first year hive.

[Ben Framed]

I didn't feed/not feed this hive. I hadn't fed them until just this week. And I don't understand. I've been told to add a box when the current one is 60% or more capacity, which is what I did.

Okay, I thought you were feeding them when you got them.  You need to feed a hive until its 2 fully drawn deeps when you get them.  Thats the goal for a first year hive.

So did I and ever since.

Doesn't really look like sac brood, you get these "slipper" shaped larvae (see centre of picture below). I've had a bout of it this season so have come across quite a few larvae looking like this. The circled larvae in Terri's picture looks melted, as do several of the others, which is very indicative of EFB . Healthy larvae should have nice well defined segments like the two near the right hand bees rear.
Bee inspector should be called for sure IMHO, there is something wrong here.
Also sterilise tools and gloves between individual hives when inspecting.

Agreed!

[Kathyp]

I zipped through so I might have missed it, but did you see eggs?  Unless you knocked the bees off that frame, there are not enough to tend brood.
I don't know what the rest of that hive looks like, but I would 1. verify that you have a queen and 2. since it is Sept, start cramming them down.  now is not the time to put other hives at risk by combining or taking resources.

The one thing you could do is shake workers from another hive into that one IF you know you have a queen and if the other hive has plenty of brood to replace a couple of frames you shake off.

In northern climates you should be feeding the thickest syrup they will take if they need to be fed.  There's not much time for them to cure it and in a hive without enough bees, not the forces to cure it.

[Terri Yaki]

Kathyp, you bring up a point that I had wondered about...can I shake bees from a different colony into one without them getting killed off? I do have a colony that may be able to afford a frame. I did see the queen and some very small larvae but I did not see any eggs. That does not mean that there aren't any, just that I was unable to see them but I did look. And I did not shake bees and agree, there are not enough to care for the larvae that are there. I don't know if that would be a self correcting problem or not.

[Terri Yaki]

And I have more questions on syrup...does it all get put into storage or is some of it used to make bee bread? And what is the connection between 1:1 syrup and making wax?