A General Hive Question

[Bill Murray]

So kinda check this out it explains better than I.

Honey bees consume pollen and nectar from flowers. Nectar provides carbohydrates and small amounts of other nutrients, while pollen provides the bulk of the insect?s protein and lipid requirements. Pollen is a key component of honey bee individual and colony health, impacting growth, longevity, and immunocompetence [4?24]. While foragers consume large amounts of nectar and honey to provide the energy for flight, nurse worker bees (?nurses?, ~5?15 days of age [25]) eat large amounts of pollen in order to fuel the growth and secretory activity of their hypopharyngeal glands (HGs). These paired secretory glands in the head secrete the major protein fraction of the jelly fed via trophallaxis to larvae, adult workers, and queens in the hive. HGs are sensitive to pollen intake, and a hallmark of nurse pollen deprivation is their small HGs, which actively degrade in response to pollen deprivation [13]. HG development is also sensitive to pollen source, with different pollens and pollen mixtures contributing to this variability [5, 6]. But despite detailed data on the plant taxon diversity and nutrient content of pollens that result in HG growth [4, 6], it is still unclear what components of these pollens encourage HG growth.

Link https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191050

[Caashenb]

I have 8 or 9 deep supers that have been full for well over a month but the bees are not capping. The cells are thicker than usual at the top as if they may have started capping but stopped. It looks like honey, tastes like honey and is thick.

We are not in a dearth yet and they are still bringing in stores so they are not using it. All I can come up with is maybe the high humidity is keeping them from getting it ready? Because of this I am picking up a refractometer but just wondering what would keep them from capping?

[Terri Yaki]

So kinda check this out it explains better than I.

Honey bees consume pollen and nectar from flowers. Nectar provides carbohydrates and small amounts of other nutrients, while pollen provides the bulk of the insect?s protein and lipid requirements. Pollen is a key component of honey bee individual and colony health, impacting growth, longevity, and immunocompetence [4?24]. While foragers consume large amounts of nectar and honey to provide the energy for flight, nurse worker bees (?nurses?, ~5?15 days of age [25]) eat large amounts of pollen in order to fuel the growth and secretory activity of their hypopharyngeal glands (HGs). These paired secretory glands in the head secrete the major protein fraction of the jelly fed via trophallaxis to larvae, adult workers, and queens in the hive. HGs are sensitive to pollen intake, and a hallmark of nurse pollen deprivation is their small HGs, which actively degrade in response to pollen deprivation [13]. HG development is also sensitive to pollen source, with different pollens and pollen mixtures contributing to this variability [5, 6]. But despite detailed data on the plant taxon diversity and nutrient content of pollens that result in HG growth [4, 6], it is still unclear what components of these pollens encourage HG growth.

Link https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0191050

Thanks. That helps explain it a bit. Knowing what they do with what will make it easier to understand what is going on.

[The15thMember]

We are not in a dearth yet and they are still bringing in stores so they are not using it. All I can come up with is maybe the high humidity is keeping them from getting it ready? Because of this I am picking up a refractometer but just wondering what would keep them from capping?

In my area that would be the culprit.  It can take a while for honey to get capped in my area, but usually what happens is the bees get as close to 18% water as they can, and then just give up and cap it.  I often get capped sourwood around 20%, which is fine.  If the moisture content is really low though, I'm not sure what would be the issue.   

[Ben Framed]

Reagan if they have a lot of uncapped honey when the dearth hits, what do they use to cap the honey combs? Do they simply use stored honey to convert to wax for the capping? Or do they simply wait, leaving the uncapped honey to dry further, while hoping for enough flow to follow to make enough wax to finish the capping? Could this possibly be one reason your bees, in your area, are slow on capping?  🤷🏻‍♂️. Reaching I know. . .

Phillip

[The15thMember]

I'm thinking they'd simply requisition wax from other places if the flow wasn't strong enough for them to be producing wax anymore.  I've seen bees tear down comb to something that looks like foundation (which I don't use) when pressed for wax in an emergency. 

[Terri Yaki]

What do you do to provide a base for them to make comb?

[The15thMember]

Nothing, I'm fully foundationless, so I just put totally empty frames in the hives, always checkerboarded if possible so they draw straight.  I just buy wedge top bar frames and nail the wedges in sideways for starter strips.  Bees in the wild don't have foundation, so I just never saw the need for the added expense.  And I see so many people that have trouble with the bees not accepting the foundation or drawing wonky comb on it anyway that I don't see the advantage personally.  Plus then the bees can draw the cell size however they prefer it and have as many drones as they want.         

[Terri Yaki]

The only downside I can see to that is the need for them to make more comb all the time vs reusing it. I would imagine that reusing would save a lot of work and resources. Does this work well for you because you are in a milder climate and they have more time?

[The15thMember]

With all mediums, I bet you could still run foundationless frames through an extractor if it wasn't too powerful, and I really bet you could if you wired them.  Even if I got a small extractor, which I may do sometime, I wouldn't use foundation.  Crushing and straining does make them use up more honey, so I get less per colony, but I can easily overcome that with more colonies.  Plus you'd be surprised how much of a surplus of drawn comb I build up even still.  I didn't have colonies drawing new comb this year until probably late May.  I had 4 full sized bins and a stack of 4 or 5 hive boxes of comb stored last winter.  Plus the sourwood flow means my bees will draw from April through mid-July with a break in early June.         

[gww]

I am all medium and run foundationless.  I have a homemade extractor and so can not claim how they would do in a bought one but believe they would do fine.  The older the comb gets the stronger it gets.  If it had had brood in it, sometimes they do not attach the bottom of the comb to the frame but they do the pure honey comb.  Any thing not attached a bit, I just put a couple rubber bands around it and most do fine.  I don't lose enough comb to make much of a difference. I lose ten times more by being lazy and letting wax moth get to them. 

I have found the best way to store them is to turn full boxes of comb on their sides so light can get to them.  This seems to keep wax moth away.  My problem is I don't break down dead outs and store them proper and then you lose them.   To the earlier question of comb guide.  I make my own frames and cut the top bar in a V shape and it works more then not if I have a level hive.  If they get off, I usually just chop the bad parts and let them drop in the hive and it all seems to work out.  Michael bush has and example of the v top bar in his on line book. 
Hope this helps more then hurts.

[Ben Framed]

I am not so gung-ho on saving a lot of drawn comb anymore. It seems to me that SHB love hiding in empty drawn out comb cells. This may be another reason to melt combs down and start fresh each spring for those who are more focused on raising bees over honey. 🤷🏻‍♂️ (Such as Don "The Fat Beeman"

[The15thMember]

Yeah I absolutely must freeze comb before storing it, and I doubt I could store it stacked in hive boxes over the winter if we didn't get freezing temperatures regularly.  I store any comb with even a little bit of honey or pollen in it in plastic bins, since the beetles seem to go for those first, and I've also had mice damage some woodenware to get to comb that isn't 100% empty. 

[Terri Yaki]

Yeah I absolutely must freeze comb before storing it, and I doubt I could store it stacked in hive boxes over the winter if we didn't get freezing temperatures regularly.  I store any comb with even a little bit of honey or pollen in it in plastic bins, since the beetles seem to go for those first, and I've also had mice damage some woodenware to get to comb that isn't 100% empty.

Man and woman vs nature. The fight is real.

[Lesgold]

I agree with you Reagan. Foundationless wired deeps are fine through the extractor. Even better when they age a bit. First time through they need a slightly lower speed and a bit of care handling them but after that they work well. If they are not drawn fully to the bottom bar they can cause issues. I found that the new frames have fewer issues in a radial rather than a tangential extractor but again, speed is your enemy. Rather than trying to spin that last drop of honey out of new frames, I tend to pull the stickies out early and gives the bees a bit of a treat. There?s nothing lost if you don?t try to be greedy.

[Michael Bush]

I run all mediums.  I don't wire.  All my wooden frames are foundationless.  I also have a lot of PF120 plastic frame/foundation.  I also have a lot of Honey Super Cell fully "drawn" plastic cut down to mediums.  I also have some PermaComb, also fully "drawn" plastic.  I routinely extract the foundationless frames with no issues.  All extracting should start at low speed and work your way up.

[Lesgold]

Another advantage of running medium frames.

[Terri Yaki]

A couple of general hive questions for today...I'm still feeding my swarm hive 1:1 syrup because they are guzzling it and still need to build more comb. They empty 1/2 gallon in about two days and I am kind of lackadaisical on keeping if filled. Does is mess them up if they go a day or two without? And, after reassembling hive(s) I have noticed that I flipped the box 180 degrees (not upside down), does this mess them up any? If I catch it before I'm all wrapped up with the inspection, I correct it, otherwise I just hope it doesn"t mess them up too bad> Something"s up with my keyboard< making these incorrect charachters>

[The15thMember]

And, after reassembling hive(s) I have noticed that I flipped the box 180 degrees (not upside down), does this mess them up any? If I catch it before I'm all wrapped up with the inspection, I correct it, otherwise I just hope it doesn"t mess them up too bad

It's not a huge deal.  I mean, I'd try to avoid doing it, especially with a brood box, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it either. 

A couple of general hive questions for today...I'm still feeding my swarm hive 1:1 syrup because they are guzzling it and still need to build more comb. They empty 1/2 gallon in about two days and I am kind of lackadaisical on keeping if filled. Does is mess them up if they go a day or two without?

I'm not sure about this one.  I'm wondering, since you are trying to get them to draw, if so-called "trickle feeding" would be the best method, where you feed them like no more than 1 qt. every day.  Are you feeding with ball jars?   

[Terri Yaki]

Yep, Ball jars and 1qt/day is about what they're taking.